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  • #31

    But that is the whole point. IE is costing companies millions of dollars. For web designers it's a pain in the ass and who do you think is plonking down the money to make corporate sites IE compatible?

    I wonder why mr. Microsoft has left this thread?
    Are we talking about IE6 which is a POS and to which Firefox provides a better alternative, or IE7, which I haven't tried and am very willing to give a go?
    "I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
    "You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:

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    • #32
      Opera sucks (though they continue to make efforts to copy Firefox's simplicity) because the designers so obviously "don't get it" in terms of user interface design. Go figure, because most of the Opera users I know are web designers who seem to forget that Opera has some of the worst JavaScript support out of all browsers.

      Web Browsers are made for the customer, not for the developer.

      Oh? I would think that designers would be the first to notice bad javascript support. I never had any trouble writing javascript that worked in both Opera and Firefox.

      And IE is made for the customer? If you really believe that than there is no reason to argue any more, I have better things to do. Just stay happy in your Microsoft dream.
      Within weeks they'll be re-opening the shipyards
      And notifying the next of kin
      Once again...

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      • #33
        Are we talking about IE6 which is a POS and to which Firefox provides a better alternative, or IE7, which I haven't tried and am very willing to give a go?

        I'm talking about both. If I read the IE7 developers blogs correctly only a couple of CSS issues will be taken on. Designers still will have the same two options: charging the client (who will undoubtly get his money back by charging his customers ie you and me) extra money to make the site work in IE as it is supposed to, or building sites like we did in 1997.
        Within weeks they'll be re-opening the shipyards
        And notifying the next of kin
        Once again...

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Hueij
          Oh? I would think that designers would be the first to notice bad javascript support. I never had any trouble writing javascript that worked in both Opera and Firefox.
          I don't think you've tried more complex javascript then. At least IE is capable of a lot, even if it is bizarre and buggy. But some things just don't work in Opera because they're not supported at all. That being said, it is now better than it used to be. FF still wins, though.
          Edit: I guess I'm mostly thinking of stylesheet related functions here...though, Opera also seems to get confused for no apparent reason when you start to really mess around with adding/removing lots of DOM nodes.
          Last edited by Koyaanisqatsi; June 27, 2005, 17:04.
          "In the beginning was the Word. Then came the ******* word processor." -Dan Simmons, Hyperion

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          • #35
            Opera has strange Javascript support, but outside of that, its adherence to standards makes it much easier to design for alongside Firefox than IE's poor standards support.

            IE7 is supposed to fix a lot of that, but it still sounds like they're not going to go all the way.
            B♭3

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            • #36
              Opera
              Firefox
              IE
              I watched you fall. I think I pushed.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Asher
                I thought it was fairly well-known that I support Firefox...

                The point is, Firefox was doing what users want. Now IE is doing more of the same. That's a good thing.

                I don't give a damn about the political bickering a lot of you get caught up in, all I care about is nice products.
                I , too , think that IE improving is a good think . I do not think that MS is "teh evil 11!!!11" .

                But I do not like it when MS/IE get the credit/mindshare for someone else's work . It's a simple concept called "fairness" .

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                • #38
                  So what you're saying is Firefox should patent the simplistic web browser UI to prevent people like Microsoft from using a simplistic web browser UI.
                  "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                  Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                  • #39
                    No , that's not what I said . I'm saying that MS should behave morally on its own , and not lift the UI straight out of Firefox . Is that too much to ask ?

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                    • #40
                      To be honest I'm having a hard time seeing what is lifted straight from Firefox in the image Mark posted...
                      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Hueij
                        For web designers it's a pain in the ass and who do you think is plonking down the money to make corporate sites IE compatible?
                        Tell me about it.

                        Once I tried to make a list in to a horizontal menu. The CSS code worked perfectly in Firefox, but IE refused to float the elements. All the known hacks were tested but IE wouldn't budge.

                        So, several hours later, I accidentally added a width attribute. A miracle then occured and IE rendered the code as expected.

                        Of course, then I couldn't have variable width tabs, but it was better then nothing.
                        (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                        (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                        (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Whaleboy
                          Are we talking about IE6 which is a POS and to which Firefox provides a better alternative, or IE7, which I haven't tried and am very willing to give a go?
                          IE 5 (or 6, for that matter) for Windows has extremely poor standard CSS and HTML support, while IE5 for the Mac has way, way better support.

                          Doesn't that make you wonder?
                          (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                          (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                          (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by aneeshm
                            No , that's not what I said . I'm saying that MS should behave morally on its own , and not lift the UI straight out of Firefox . Is that too much to ask ?
                            No. I honestly don't care, as long as I get a better browser.

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                            • #44
                              I avoid microshaft software at every opportunity, and IE 7 will be no different.
                              He's got the Midas touch.
                              But he touched it too much!
                              Hey Goldmember, Hey Goldmember!

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Kuciwalker


                                No. I honestly don't care, as long as I get a better browser.
                                You don't give a damn about morality ? You wouldn't care if the place you worked for paid you with stolen money , and you knew it was stolen ?

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