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Islamic Group Calls for Use of Koran to Take Oath

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Ming
    It is a legitimate complaint. People should have the right to swear on any holy book they do so desire, or none if they don't believe... It should be a non issue, but I'm sure the fundies will be all over this... sigh...


    There is no reason to deny them this
    (although I´m sure, christian fundamentalists will bring in a lot of reasons why they think it shouldn´t be allowed )
    Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
    Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

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    • #17
      As far as I'm concerned the Koran is not holy scripture. Just because some may think it is, doesn't make it so. And muslims are pretty extreme minorities in the US...

      That said, it's a legitimate complaint that this is state establishment of my view of religion, which is unconstitutional. So everybody must do the affirmation and religion must be dereferenced in the oath.
      I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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      • #18
        I can't believe I am going to say this, but maybe we should get rid of swearing on the Bible completely and just use affirmation for everybody.

        First, as a Christian, I don't believe that swearing on the Bible is appropriate because Jesus said that we should not swear on anything. Second, if we use affirmation for everybody then there won't be any religious discrimination since nobody will have preference over another.
        'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
        G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Ming
          The concept of swearing on some book is meant to ensure that the person is telling the truth... It's kind of joke to think that somebody who doesn't believe in the bible will be more truthful because they have been asked to swear on it...
          QFT

          The whole point is to reinforce the seriousness of telling the truth to the WITNESS. Whatever book serves that purpose fir that witness is the right one to use, whether everyone else thinks of it as holy or not.
          "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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          • #20
            "As far as I'm concerned the Koran is not holy scripture."

            That's a bizarre statement. Why not?

            It's the official holy book of Islam - FACT!
            Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
            Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
            We've got both kinds

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            • #21
              Originally posted by The diplomat
              maybe we should get rid of swearing on the Bible completely and just use affirmation for everybody.


              But it would be fun to see the response if someone wanted to swear on "Mein Kampf"
              The enemy cannot push a button if you disable his hand.

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              • #22
                It's parity - sounds fair enough to me...
                Speaking of Erith:

                "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by DAVOUT
                  It is legitimate only if you think that the judge will not be influenced by the religion you have. On the contrary, no holy book is acceptable.
                  The judge is generally (except in bench trials, which are defendant's choice or not) only the trier of law, not of fact, and as such, the judge's rulings of law are appealable.

                  The holy book thing is traditional from way prior to the US, but really isn't necessary, because the penalties one needs to concern oneself with are here in this world, rather than in the next.
                  When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by MikeH
                    "As far as I'm concerned the Koran is not holy scripture."

                    That's a bizarre statement. Why not?

                    It's the official holy book of Islam - FACT!
                    Yeh, well. I'm not muslim and it's just an ordinary book to me.
                    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by lord of the mark


                      QFT

                      The whole point is to reinforce the seriousness of telling the truth to the WITNESS. Whatever book serves that purpose fir that witness is the right one to use, whether everyone else thinks of it as holy or not.
                      5-15 year range of sentences for perjury ought to make that point more effectively. Especially given the Christian view that virtually all sin is forgiveable, the state's penalties are a bit more hard-nosed than God's.
                      When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by lord of the mark
                        The whole point is to reinforce the seriousness of telling the truth to the WITNESS.
                        It's also to reinforce to the public the seriousness of what is about to be testified. If somebody swears on the Koran, that means nothing to me as a christian.
                        I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                        • #27
                          Me, I'd swear on whatever the jurors thought was Holy.

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                          • #28
                            Yep, the muslims are right here. Though I have to wonder if this complaint has any bearing on reality (as in an actual muslim official being denied the right to swear on the Koran). Considering it's NC, I doubt it...
                            Tutto nel mondo è burla

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by DanS


                              Yeh, well. I'm not muslim and it's just an ordinary book to me.
                              They're all just old texts from history (and should be confined to!) for me...again, this does stink of pure Christian righteous arrogance...

                              Getting me to swear on a holy book is utterly meaningless to me anyway...it's just words and paper (of the toilet variety) to me
                              Speaking of Erith:

                              "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

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                              • #30
                                Since the law clearly states "holy scripture" and not "bible" I don't see why it's even an issue... but they should get rid of both and switch to affirmations only.
                                I'm consitently stupid- Japher
                                I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

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