Schiavo Autopsy report ready

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by MrFun
I think for the first time in Apolyton's history, someone has pwned MTG??

No, we weren't arguing about the same thing, apparently. He seems to have thought I was saying that the tape proved the Schindlers were being intentionally dishonest about Terri's condition. Actually, I was only saying that their editing of the tape shows they were being intentionally dishonest about what the tape depicted, given their refusal to release the full version.

[MrFun]

Damn it -- thought this was an earth-shattering, unprecedented event.



guess not

[Dis]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


But there's no reason to, since her husband (and presumed legal guardian) wants to keep her alive so the baby can be born. It's a no-brainer.

Erm, I should rephrase that...

so cruel.

[Dinner]

Yeah, that was a nice pun. Still, it is a no brainer and the only question is will he have the money to pay for this since he's only a 20 something. This is just another reason why we should have national health insurence so that people like this family won't have to be financially ruined in order to save the child.

[DeathByTheSword]

Originally posted by MrFun
News headline at some point in future after Bush's death:

Bush's brain autospy reveals deformities.

headline:

Bush's brain autospy cancelled after 2 month search for brain

[Brundlefly]

Originally posted by GePap


Because this is the end of the issue, where the truth is revealed.

Truth is subjective. You should know that!

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
If she could feel pain, how must it have been for her to suffer from starvation for 2 weeks before finally succumbing?

As I've repeatedly stated, starvation doesn't hurt. I have starved before, and after the first couple of days, you don't even notice you aren't eating anymore. Hunger stops bothering you. You just go one with things as usual and you have stop to think, "have I had anything to eat today?" or you'll forget to eat something. I ate one to no meals a day for the month of February, 1989. By the end of the month I'd lost 15lbs and my 5'11" self was at 144lbs.

[Boris Godunov]

My grandmother "starved" to death when she was in the hospital with lung cancer. She'd been hooked up to a tube and was being sustained that way. She asked to be unhooked and let die. Now, she was lucid until almost the very end, so at any point she could have expressed to the people around her that she was in pain. But she never did, and the doctors explained that she wasn't in any discomfort, that her organs would gradually shut down and she was pass away from dehydration. My grandfather, mom and her siblings were there the whole time and it was a very peaceful, dignified way to go. Any sane person would rather do that than go through the agony of death via cancer, or spend 15+ years lingering like Schiavo did.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Well, who cares if her brain was shriveled up to the size of a chimp's? The same was true of Strom Thurman, but he continued to perform his duties as a US senator for years, and years, and years, and years.

Interesting that you single out Thurman and ignore KKK leader Robert Byrd, who remains a higly honored Democrat senator. So long as that fascist pig remains coddled and honored by the Democrats, they and you have no right to declaim on Thurmond.

[Mr. Harley]

Ned, remember Dr.Strangelove is right down there living in that area, and I think he is talking about the state Strom was in when he finally kicked the bucket. Having spent a decade in West Virginia, Byrd is having some senior moments too. As did a certain nameless President who, given the progression of the disease, almost certainly had mid-stage Alzheimer's by the end of his Presidency (and most assuredly the early stage beyond a doubt) - teh Reagan.

[Boris Godunov]

Yeah, I was going to say, he was referring to Strom's dottering senility in his final years of the Senate.

I remember watching a clip of a speech he was giving on C-Span commemorating the Alamo. In it, he praised the Texans who fended off the horde of Russians. The beautiful part was seeing an aide in the background put his head in his hand in exhasperation...

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I was asking if you were saying that, because I can't figure out what the hell you're trying to say. The only thing that seems to make sense in the context of this argument was that you were saying just that. So I'll refrain from dining at the moment.

Lying is a matter of intent. Self-delusion, and irrationally rejecting all evidence to the contrary (a la fundamentalists, flat-earthers, etc.) is not.

How the hell is that a strawman?

You asked if a media outlet editing footage of a tape was an example of lying, and I said that if they did it the same way the Schindlers did it, then yes. That's not a strawman at all.

The specific editing doesn't make a difference. It's the intent behind the editing process - is it merely to condense at random (piss poor editing), or to tell a story ("fair and balanced?" )

That's nice, dear, but doesn't at all address the point. I'll spell it out simple:

1. Schindlers video tape daughter
2. Schindlers selectively edit 4 hours down to 15 minutes
3. Schindlers give 15 minutes to judge as proof, and release 15 minutes to media
4. Judge sees it, but demands to see all 4 hours
5. Judge sees 4 hours, is singularly unimpressed, says the full tape shows she isn't responsive and rules against Schindlers
6. Schindlers refuse to this day to release all 4 hours, but still trumpet 15 minutes as proof of their claims.

You haven't spelled out squat.
1. tape daughter
2. most of the time, she's not responding real well because she's tired and it's hard work but she's trying, and she's done it before AND LOOK - SHES RESPONDING and oh, the poor dear, it's so hard for her because that nogoodsonofa***** won't care for her AND LOOK - SHE DID IT AGAIN...
3,4,5 blah blah
6 it's because those evil atheist Terri-killers want to gloat and want to take things out of context like that evil atheist liberal baby-eating cruel wicked judge who all ignored what she could do to focus on the times she was too worn out or distracted or stressed, the poor dear, but WE KNOW she was responsive blah blah

Now, there's no reasonable way you can say the Schindlers are being honest about what the video depicts.

When did I say they were honest about anything? There's a little more nuance to human psychology than a straight line from "honest" to "lying." What I'm saying is that rather than a conscious, rational intent (a la Bill Clinton or George W. Bush), that their behavior and statements are a product of irrational self-delusion.

I'd bet my half my paycheck that if either were strapped down to a polygraph, they'd pass - because they don't believe they're lying.

Since they refuse to release the entire video, they must know that it does not depict what they claim, as the judge stated. Else, why not release the whole thing?

First, what's the point? She's dead. Second, they've created a nice little us v. them worldview and had the likes of Randall Terry flock to them, so they've had plenty of people to spin things and reinforce the evil Godless liberal Terri-killers who want to gloat and justify what they did blah blah blah.

The Schindlers were sincerely delusional about the state of the daughter, but they were quite insincere and dishonest when it came to that video tape.

You're assuming they'd have a different rationality and frame of mind about seeing their daughter all the time, vs. a four hour videotape of their daughter? The thought processes are one and the same, one's just sort of live and the other's Memorex.

[Ned]

Florida prosecutors will investigate the cause of Terri's "event" given the autopsy report and the reported long gap between the discovery of Terri in her collapsed condition and the 911 call. Michael Schiavo has said that he discovered Terri between 4:30 and 5 am, but his 911 call was not made until 5:40 am.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/17/AR2005061700350_pf.html

[ixnay]

That Jeb Bush sure knows how to beat a dead horse

[GePap]

Cute. The autopsy shuts down their main claims, so hey, lets waste MORE taxpayer dollars to beat a dead horse and keep the Nedian nuts happy...