G8 - Debt forgiveness for poorest nations

[chequita guevara]

A lot of the compromises in the Constitution actually weren't. Madison pretty much wrote the whole damn thing from his own plan, and then spun it as a compromise. There were a few good compromises, a few more bad ones bad ones.

Constitutional fun fact, when someone says that the First amendment was so important that that's why they put it first, they don't know what they are talking about. Madison proposed twelve amendments in his Bill of Rights. The "First Amendment" was actually #3 on his original list. I don't recall what the first two were.

[Kidlicious]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: G8 - Debt forgiveness for poorest nations

Originally posted by lord of the mark
We're saying you cant use the money to go build an unprofitable steel mill. We're NOT saying you have to be pro-US or pro-UK, that you have to be a parliamentary democracy, or that you have to adopt any particular ideology.

I don't think that's how it works. The micro decisions are made on a local level aren't they.

[JohnT]

Secrets of History: REVEALED!

Originally posted by chegitz guevara Constitutional fun fact, when someone says that the First amendment was so important that that's why they put it first, they don't know what they are talking about. Madison proposed twelve amendments in his Bill of Rights. The "First Amendment" was actually #3 on his original list. I don't recall what the first two were.

The Conventions of a number of the States having, at the time of adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added, and as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government will best insure the beneficent ends of its institution;

Resolved, by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, two-thirds of both Houses concurring, that the following articles be proposed to the Legislatures of the several States, as amendments to the Constitution of the United States; all or any of which articles, when ratified by three-fourths of the said Legislatures, to be valid to all intents and purposes as part of the said Constitution, namely:

Amendment I

Be Most Excellent to Each Other

Amendment II

Party on, Dudes!

Amendment III
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


Amendment IV
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.


Amendment V
No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.


Amendment VII
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


Amendment VIII
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


Amendment IX
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.


Amendment X
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.


Amendment XI
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.


Amendment XII
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


Amendment XIII
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

[MrFun]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: G8 - Debt forgiveness for poorest nations

Originally posted by lord of the mark



The US constitution was founded on numerous compromises, of which most were brilliant, and one was poor (though it did give the Republic a chance to get started) That boat has been floating quite well for a long time. Long may she sail!!!!!!

Indeed -- the Constitution created a much more viable government than that which existed under the Articles.

The Founders had found out that under the Articles, the government could not enforce its own laws. They wanted to ensure that individual states could not destroy the nation as a whole by providing the federal government more effective, constitutional means of enforcing the laws and protecting the rights of citizens.

[lord of the mark]

Re: Secrets of History: REVEALED!

Originally posted by JohnT

Amendment I

Be Most Excellent to Each Other

Amendment II

Party on, Dudes!

Amendment III
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or restricting the right to exercise in religious affiliated buildings, such as YMCA's or Jewish Community Centers; or abridging the freedom of speech, except on when talking loudly on cellphones; or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


Amendment IV
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and arm bears, shall not be infringed.


Amendment V
No soldier shall, in time of peace be drawn and quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.


Amendment VII
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


Amendment VIII
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, which as we all know does whatever the DA wants anyway, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia (See above about armed bears), when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation, except in New London.


Amendment IX
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, preferrably televised on CNN, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, unless a more favorable venue can be found, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.


Amendment X
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.


Amendment XI
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.


Amendment XII
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


Amendment XIII
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

[JohnT]

Nice display of your awesome quoting powers, LOTM. Care to comment?

[chequita guevara]

[Lawrence of Arabia]

But if you don't forgive their debt they wont have the money to build their economy.

and if you forgive their debt, they'll just got right back into it, and their economy wont go anywhere.

That wasn't debt relief, it was debt restructuring. They simple changed the amount those coutrnies had to pay, which meant their debts went up, just like you end up owing more on a 30-year mortgage than a 20-year mortgage.

not, that was actual debt forgiveness.

[chequita guevara]

I don't recall any real debt forgiveness, even when countries like Mexico defaulted.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by JohnT
Nice display of your awesome quoting powers, LOTM. Care to comment?

try reading it closer

[Lawrence of Arabia]

I don't recall any real debt forgiveness, even when countries like Mexico defaulted.

mexico defaulted in 1995. im talking about 70s or 80s. read william easterly - "the elusive quest for growth." he has a whole chapter on how debt forgiveness does not work.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
and if you forgive their debt, they'll just got right back into it, and their economy wont go anywhere.

Not necessarily. There is the incentive for independence that only comes from not having to go into debt.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia


as it stands now with 'country bureaus' these donors give out money because they want to help the poor, no matter how the recipient governments work. these governments know this, and they can abuse the money and get away with it, because no one is going to slam the door shut.

That's not true. When the IMF gives a loan, it comes with a lot of conditions and the money is given in stages. If a government doesn't meet the requirements then the money is cut off.

The problem is the conditions set by the IMF. All too often they make a country poorer so that it is unable to pay off the loans.

The solution is to change the way the IMF works. That way there would be fewer problems.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

That's not true. When the IMF gives a loan, it comes with a lot of conditions and the money is given in stages. If a government doesn't meet the requirements then the money is cut off.

The problem is the conditions set by the IMF. All too often they make a country poorer so that it is unable to pay off the loans.

The solution is to change the way the IMF works. That way there would be fewer problems.

and youre right, but the IMF only gives emergency loans. they are for countries ALREADY in debt, and who have defautled.

Not necessarily. There is the incentive for independence that only comes from not having to go into debt.

they'll just sit around waiting for the next round of debt forgivness. plus you assume a good government. good governments dont get into debt inthe first place. history shows us that debt forgivness has NOT worked.

[Bosh]

The problem is the conditions set by the IMF. All too often they make a country poorer so that it is unable to pay off the loans.

Yeah, good idea in theory but the majority of IMF economists are incompetant lazy ****s who try to apply the same flawed model to every country no matter what problems they are having.