Do you think VERY VERY VERY harsh penalties will stop corporate offenders?

[JohnT]

If Ken Lay was flayed alive on national television, do you think another CEO would try to cook the books for a few years? I don't.

I do.

But let's not forget it wasn't Ken Lay who cooked Enron's books. I'm sure, being the expert on it, you know who the true criminals were in the Enron story so I won't mention them here. But still... why the focus on Lay when it is a fact that he didn't do anything wrong except allow a permissive culture like that to exist in the first place?

And you'll have to explain to us why you think Sarbannes-Oxley isn't deterrent enough?

Again, I ask, how do you not plan to rape a child?

[MrFun]

I understand what you're saying and like I said, it still stinks like bullsh*t.

Capital punishment does NOT deter criminal activity. I believe that in many states with the death penalty, their murder rate is higher compared to states without a death penalty, for example.



So you're STILL not making any sense.



EDIT: cross-posting

[JohnT]

JohnT, if no CEO or executive board EVER cooked the books again, and the price was Ken Lay's suffering(which would be good anyway!) do you think society has made a net gain, or a netloss?

Again, your bizarre focus with Ken Lay.

To answer your question, if we went along the line you proposed there would be quite a net loss to society.

[Vesayen]

Sarbannes-Oxley is not enough of a deterant because they do not think they will be caught. They compare the risk and the reward and deem it worth while. Increase the risk several orders of magnitude and it is no longer worth it.

Ken Lay is guilty of plenty of other things including buying politicians for decades. Ken Lay was the head hancho at Enron, it happened under his watch-he is responsible, though the other executives and our favorite quasi bankrupt accounting firm are guilty as well.

Rapists are deranged mentally and violent deterans will likley not be as effective. IF it was shown it worked on rapists, the death penalty might be justified-MIGHT be. All evidence I have ever seen points otherwise however.





Edit:Capital punishment does not deter UNPREMEDITATED VIOLENT criminal activity. I have never seen any study on premeditated financial crimes and the death penalty, have you?

[MrFun]

JohnT, I think Vesayen has completely surrendured to the dark side.


We made the mistake in including him in our Jedi council.

[JohnT]

You claim that the DP does not work for violent criminals, but then argue that it will work to rid society of non-violent criminals. How... .

[Vesayen]

HEY I still support truth freedom and the American way, I just also support REDICULOUSLY UNREASONABLE punishments for corporate criminals.

[Vesayen]

Yes JohnT that is exactly my claim.

Premeditated crimes by corpoate offenders, are planned. They give a great deal of consideration and weight the risk VS the reward. They decide the reward justifies the risk. If the risk is made unbelivably horrific, the reward is no longer worth while, even if the chances of the risk are remote.




Most killers and rapists don't plan their crimes-or they are mentally unbalanced. Corrupt corporate types are not mentally unbalanced, nor do they do their crimes without planning, they are just *explitives*.

If it works for Singapore....... there is some real life evidence that horrific penalties stops non violent offenders.....

[JohnT]

I have never seen any study on premeditated financial crimes and the death penalty, have you?

Since there hasn't been a DP statute in effect for financial crimes, you'll likely have a hard time finding one, don't you think?

[Vesayen]

Yes, which is why we can make a logical analysis of it. Without much more evidence other then singapore-which I certainly don't have a documented case study of......

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Vesayen
HEY I still support truth freedom and the American way, I just also support REDICULOUSLY UNREASONABLE punishments for corporate criminals.

QFT




Now, hand over your light saber -- you are hereby expelled from the Jedi council.

[Vesayen]

The Jedi council is stuck in the past and will not embrace the strength of the future... I WILL SAVE THE REPUBLIC!


*kills a black jedi for no aparent reason*

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Vesayen
Yes, which is why we can make a logical analysis of it. Without much more evidence other then singapore-which I certainly don't have a documented case study of......

Well, there's all those Communist countries which killed their industrialists and farmers...

[MrFun]

But JohnT you are about to bring up facts that counter the congratulatory glorification of communism.


Shame on you for attempting to bring facts into this matter -- all just to get Che and other readers of this thread panties in a twist.

[Vesayen]

What I am advocating has absolutley nothing to do with communism and you both know it.