Do you think VERY VERY VERY harsh penalties will stop corporate offenders?

[chequita guevara]

Almost no one committs a crime with the expectation of being caught.

[Spiffor]

Corporate offenders would be probably scared off if the punishment was serious. For example, I know that in France, pretty much every corporate boss is dead afraid of software piracy, because the ones who go to jail for this are the higher-ups (and they don't go to luxury jails).

However, the key is to improve detection. I trust that the US already has adequate punishment for the crimes (OTOH, if Ken Lay isn't going to share his cell with Bubba for the next 20 years, then there's a problem), but that there's a feeling that the corporate crooks can get away with anything because of non-detection or complacency.

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Almost no one committs a crime with the expectation of being caught.

Then have no punishments! Duh.






Correct, no one wakes up planning to embezzle millions but it is still a long process in which they activley participate.






Spiffor, we do not have harsh enough punishments for corporate offenders-if Ken Lay is like most of our corporate offenders there will be a long protracted trial(or an unbelivably quick one) with a sentence FARRRR too light, then the sentence will be commuted.

Don't forget the VERY small fine that is usually tossed in..... my favorite part is in many cases, they don't even have to pay back the money they stole!

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by DerSchwarzfalke


TR COME HOME

Word.

I have heard Teddy' Roosevelt's name being mentioned many times over the last few weeks.

Being a whore to big business.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Vesayen
Then have no punishments! Duh.

As usual, you miss the point. Penalties should be appropriate to the crime, and not imposed simply for deterence, since deterence very rarely motivates people. If deterent worked, there'd be no murders in DP states.

I don't think any one would seroiusly accuess me of being soft on corporate America.

[Vesayen]

We all live by a social contract we have with society. The purpose of society is to protect us as an individual. However society also has to protect to protect us from each other and violate individual rights for the good of the whole. For that purpose we have punishments and prisons. I am sure you are familliar with this whole line of thought, everyone on Apolyton is.

The point of a penalty is to remove a threat from society OR to stand as an example to others in hopes to prevent more crimes-ANYTHING else is vengance and is unjust.

You mention motivations..... corporate offenders and violent ones have different motivations.

Deterence does not work on crimes of passion because they are usually usually not premeditated.

Corporate crimes are always premeditated and calculated, as said above, no one can decide to steal a billion dollars or inflate their stock value tonight-it takes time and a continuing decision to commit the crime.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


As usual, you miss the point. Penalties should be appropriate to the crime, and not imposed simply for deterence, since deterence very rarely motivates people. If deterent worked, there'd be no murders in DP states.

In fact, isn't murder at higher rates in states with the death penalty compared to states without a death penalty?

[Vesayen]

I don't know about that but New York(even with New York city!) has a low murder rate and we do NOT have the death penalty here.

[chequita guevara]

NY does have the DP and has since a little after you guys elected Patakis.

[Vesayen]

Are you certain about that? There was a debate about putting it back into effect but it never occured.....

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by MrFun
Vesayen isn't making sense in this thread.

Ya think?

If you can't get executed for rape or torture (the only crimes that the death penalty can be used for is murder.. proportionality of punishment to the crime and all that), it's utterly silly to advocate capital punishment for embezzlers and defrauders.

[alva]

Hmm, exactly how many lives are wrevked because of Emron?
How much (indirect) suffering has it caused?

Fraude - on this scale - is very much underrated, underpunished(that even a word?) and too much socialy accepted(as in people not thinking it, it's as bad as a 'serious crime').

[MrFun]

For the life of me, I seriously cannot fathom why some people such as Vesayen are even seriously considering the idea that capital crime is justifiable for non-violent crimes that do not endanger the life of the victims.


I am opposed to capital punishment, period. But as you can see, people who have different opinions on capital punishment all agree that Vesayen's idea is out of whack.

[Kuciwalker]

For the life of me, I seriously cannot fathom why some people such as Vesayen are even seriously considering the idea that capital crime is justifiable for non-violent crimes that do not endanger the life of the victims.

IMO, Enron-scale fraud causes FAR greater harm than murder.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

For the life of me, I seriously cannot fathom why some people such as Vesayen are even seriously considering the idea that capital crime is justifiable for non-violent crimes that do not endanger the life of the victims.

IMO, Enron-scale fraud causes FAR greater harm than murder.

sure