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  • French Reject E.U. Constitution

    French Reject Europe's First Constitution

    By JOHN LEICESTER
    The Associated Press
    Sunday, May 29, 2005; 5:01 PM

    PARIS -- French voters rejected the European Union's first constitution Sunday, President Jacques Chirac said _ a stinging repudiation of his leadership and the ambitious, decades-long effort to further unite the continent.

    Chirac, who urged voters to approve the charter, announced the result in a brief, televised address. He said the process of ratifying the treaty would continue in other EU countries.

    "France has expressed itself democratically," Chirac said. "It is your sovereign decision, and I take note."

    Earlier, the Interior Ministry said that with about 83 percent of the votes counted, the referendum was rejected by 57.26 percent of voters. It was supported by 42.74 percent.

    All 25 EU members must ratify the text for it to take effect as planned by Nov. 1, 2006 _ and nine already have done so. The Dutch vote Wednesday, with polls showing opposition to the constitution there running at about 60 percent.

    France's rejection could set the continent's plans back by years. The nation was a primary architect of European unity.

    "There is no more constitution," leading opponent Philippe de Villiers said. "It is necessary to reconstruct Europe on other foundations that don't currently exist."

    De Villiers called on Chirac to resign _ something the French leader had said he would not do _ and called for parliament to be dissolved.

    "Tonight we face a major political crisis," he said.

    Extreme-right leader Jean-Marie Le Pen, who campaigned vigorously for the constitution's defeat, also called for Chirac's resignation.

    Chirac "wanted to gamble ... and he has lost," Le Pen said.

    The rejection could kill any hopes Chirac may have had for a third term. His approval ratings have plunged to 39 percent in recent weeks, and there was widespread speculation a "no" vote would prompt him to fire unpopular Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin.

    European leaders negotiated the treaty in October in Rome. EU officials said before the vote that even if France rejected the treaty, efforts to ratify it in other countries would proceed.

    On Friday, the constitution's main architect, former French President Valery Giscard d'Estaing, said countries that reject the treaty will be asked to vote again.
    Does this mean that the French are getting the current constitution, whether they like it or not? Or does anyone think that the E.U. will have the courage to start over and make the constitution stronger and more 'desireable'?

    I for one highly doubt that a renegotiation will take place any time soon. It seems that many of the elite see this as a done deal that'll be approved one way or another.....
    If you look around and think everyone else is an *******, you're the *******.

  • #2
    Everyone has to approve it, so the French have to vote to accept it for it to take effect. Whether it takes 15 votes, we'll see.
    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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    • #3
      All 25 EU members must ratify the text for it to take effect as planned by Nov. 1, 2006
      wrong, it's 4/5 or 20 out of 25 countries....
      Co-Founder, Apolyton Civilization Site
      Co-Owner/Webmaster, Top40-Charts.com | CTO, Apogee Information Systems
      giannopoulos.info: my non-mobile non-photo news & articles blog

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      • #4
        I'm tuned for diplomatic fireworks ...
        Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?

        It's no good (from an evolutionary point of view) to have the physique of Tarzan if you have the sex drive of a philosopher. -- Michael Ruse
        The Nedaverse I can accept, but not the Berzaverse. There can only be so many alternate realities. -- Elok

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        • #5
          I wonder what Peter Mandelson (UK) going to say to the Chinese about EU textile imports now. Britain is pro-freetrade but France (seeing the 55% massive turnout) obviously isn´t.
          Skeptics should forego any thought of convincing the unconvinced that we hold the torch of truth illuminating the darkness. A more modest, realistic, and achievable goal is to encourage the idea that one may be mistaken. Doubt is humbling and constructive; it leads to rational thought in weighing alternatives and fully reexamining options, and it opens unlimited vistas.

          Elie A. Shneour Skeptical Inquirer

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          • #6
            Originally posted by MarkG

            All 25 EU members must ratify the text for it to take effect as planned by Nov. 1, 2006


            wrong, it's 4/5 or 20 out of 25 countries....
            Wrong, the treaty of the constitution will not come into effect if even a single country is unable to ratify it.

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            • #7
              well i'm sure there is a rule about 4/5 of countries doing someting
              Co-Founder, Apolyton Civilization Site
              Co-Owner/Webmaster, Top40-Charts.com | CTO, Apogee Information Systems
              giannopoulos.info: my non-mobile non-photo news & articles blog

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              • #8
                Yes there is Mark... you were confused.

                On page 240, there is a provision that says:

                "If, two years after the signature of the Treaty establishing the Constitution, four fifths of the Member States have ratified it and one or more Member States have encountered difficulties in proceeding with ratification, the matter will be refered to the European Council."

                It concerns those countries that had difficulties in ratification.
                “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                Comment


                • #9


                  The ‘no’ was won by the extreme left (PCF and other far-left supporters voted 94-98% against) and the extreme right (Front National supporters voted 93% against). The moderate left was moderately against (PS supporters 56% against). Supporters of the EU-federalist liberal UDF party voted massively in favour (76%), as did supporters of President Chirac’s UMP pary (80%).
                  So it was the fascist and communists that won the day.
                  Skeptics should forego any thought of convincing the unconvinced that we hold the torch of truth illuminating the darkness. A more modest, realistic, and achievable goal is to encourage the idea that one may be mistaken. Doubt is humbling and constructive; it leads to rational thought in weighing alternatives and fully reexamining options, and it opens unlimited vistas.

                  Elie A. Shneour Skeptical Inquirer

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well it would appear that the Non had better spin than the Oui. Let's face it, there's probably about eight people in the whole of France who read the whole thing (despite everyone getting a free copy from the government delivered to their door).
                    I haven't read it either, but I bloody plan to if Mr Tony Blair ever gets round to inviting us to vote on it. (We'll reject it too by the way, I'll tell you that now without having read it, or without anyone having read it).

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by duke o' york
                      Well it would appear that the Non had better spin than the Oui. Let's face it, there's probably about eight people in the whole of France who read the whole thing (despite everyone getting a free copy from the government delivered to their door).
                      I haven't read it either, but I bloody plan to if Mr Tony Blair ever gets round to inviting us to vote on it. (We'll reject it too by the way, I'll tell you that now without having read it, or without anyone having read it).
                      Not according to my local news. The french bookshops has apparently sold a lot of books about the subject, both the raw text and different analysis of it.
                      With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                      Steven Weinberg

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                      • #12
                        to this great humiliation of Jacques Chirac.

                        Tony Blair will now be uncorking the champagne; he can now claim there is no point to voting on the constitution and he himself will be saved a major embarrasment.
                        "I'm moving to the Left" - Lancer

                        "I imagine the neighbors on your right are estatic." - Slowwhand

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                        • #13
                          is this going to be another one of those things where people are asked to vote on it again and again until they get tired of voting and vote yes?

                          Jon Miller
                          Jon Miller-
                          I AM.CANADIAN
                          GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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                          • #14
                            Maybe I can help understand the situation.

                            The refendum's aftermath, as usual, was full of crappy politicians trying to explain that their party was the winner, that they have the right interpretation. However, there are some polls that actually depict the public's behaviour:

                            From abroad, or from the international press (which, in Europe, is mostly constitution friendly), it is tempting to believe in facile myths. These polls debunk it quite well.

                            1st myth: The Non vote was all about domestic issues. False.
                            The three main reasons among the non voters were (several possible answers)
                            - you're unhappy with the current socio-economic situation in France: 52%
                            - the constitution is economically too liberal [European meaning] 40%
                            - It will allow to renegociate a better treaty: 39%
                            In France, the political establishment and their pro-Oui friends in the press are quickly tempted to paint the Non voters with a broad brush, that they only cared about domestic policies, and not one notch about Europe. This is false. Despite the very prevalent charicature, one half of the non voters didn't express any socio-ecoonmic discontent in their vote. This half's vote was fully motivted by European issues.

                            So, the Non vote was not entirely about domestic economic matters. Was it about domestic political matters? Did the French want to overthrow Chirac and his cronies? Again, no.
                            The statement "it is the opportunity to oppose the government of Jacques Chirac" is the one that was the least supported by the non voters (24%). The "blind opposition" vote wasn't entirely unexistent, but it was nothing as close as what our Oui politicians want to believe.

                            2nd Myth: The French didn't bother to evaluate the constitution. False.
                            48% of the polled evaluate the constitution as "very bad" or "rather bad". OTOH, 41% evaluate it as "very good" or "rather good". Only 11% of the polled have no opinion on the issue.
                            If you don't take the "no opinion" into account, you have 54% of the polled that are disfavourable to the con, while 46% are favourable. It is very close from the eventual result.

                            3rd Myth (that will mostly be heard abroad IMO): This referendum shows that the French are anti-European. False.
                            A whooping 72% of the French population are "very favourable" or "rather favourable" to continue the European construction. Only 23% are opposed to it.
                            "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                            "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                            "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jon Miller
                              is this going to be another one of those things where people are asked to vote on it again and again until they get tired of voting and vote yes?
                              Wait and see, but several EU figureheads have spoken today, and have said that it won't be so.

                              Actually, it will entirely depend on how many other countries ratify it. If 5 or more countries reject the treaty, then it will be definitely dead. If less than 5 countries reject it, then the European leaders will decide the course of action during a summit in late 2006.
                              "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                              "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                              "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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