French Reject E.U. Constitution

[Kuciwalker]

I know why they could vote on it; I just don't see why they'd particularly care about the European Union on the other side of the planet...

[Spiffor]

The EU is responsible for 70% of France's law. Even though the French law is decided in Paris/Brussels, it applies in Polynesia.

But indeed, there were much fewer votes in the islands than on the continental France.

[Kuciwalker]

The EU is responsible for 70% of France's law.

[Shi Huangdi]

Wow it seems pretty much the entire country except for Paris, Brittany, the colonies, and a few spots near the border rejected the treaty. That has to make it even more embarassing for Chirac.

I guess it makes sense that as you suggest that in spite of the Socialist party being so devided on the constitution it shouldn't remain split, they can now simply camapign on the idea of a renegotiated treaty that doesn't incorporate liberal principles. But still, it seems the Communists should now be able to claim that they are the only party which truly represents the views of the French left and not the political elite.

I wonder, do you think Chirac will now face more hostility from his own party, with politicans distancing themselves or perhaps calling on Chirac to resign? After a result like this it would seem the presence of Chirac would have to be seen as a liability for their own party.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
I guess it makes sense that as you suggest that in spite of the Socialist party being so devided on the constitution it shouldn't remain split, they can now simply camapign on the idea of a renegotiated treaty that doesn't incorporate liberal principles.

I hope this happens. A social Europe and not a weakened Europe.
I'm counting on you Spiffor.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

ils ont des chapeaux ronds, vive la bretaaagne
ils ont des chapeaux ronds, vive les bretons.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

fox news had THE shoddiest reporting ever on the vote, filled with so many journalistic mistakes and bad analysis.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Wow it seems pretty much the entire country except for Paris, Brittany, the colonies, and a few spots near the border rejected the treaty. That has to make it even more embarassing for Chirac.

Yes, this is a major slap in the face. But in comparison with last year's regional election (purple=left), it looks almost like a stunning success

Actually, it's the first time I hear mainstream politicians (from the left) openly call for a resignation. And indeed, I think he'll be facing more hostility by his party. After last year's pathetic defeat, his only hope was to adress the problems of the French population. He was entirely unsuccessful (parts of the population were still seing their purchasing power sink, French companies were closing their French factories while making record profits and paying arrogant golden parachutes, things like that). I don't think there is any way he can lure his followers into believing he can restore his credibility among the general population.

I think Chirac has seriously lost touch with reality. He has just suffered an utter defeat, he's more unpopular than ever (according to other polls), and it's the time he chooses to say that we must unite behind him

I guess it makes sense that as you suggest that in spite of the Socialist party being so devided on the constitution it shouldn't remain split, they can now simply camapign on the idea of a renegotiated treaty that doesn't incorporate liberal principles.

Well, it will probably slip in somewhere in their platform during the 2007 presidential elections. My prediction is that the Socialists will be back at business as usual once they shuffle their leadership a bit (unless they actually split into several parties, which I really doubt). By "business as usual", I mean that they'll talk of whatever issue-of-the-day is fashionable, and Europe will probably not be one of them.

But still, it seems the Communists should now be able to claim that they are the only party which truly represents the views of the French left and not the political elite.

Not exactly. There were several key figures in the socialist party (PS) that campaigned for the Non. Most notably Fabius: he's very centre (actually, I consider him to be centre right), and he had a vocal Non campaign. There also are some actual lefties at the PS that have vocally campaigned for the Non, and who have probably grown in significance within the party.

Besides, even though the Commie Party (PCF) was instrumental in organizing the diverse left-wing Non voices, it was but one of these many voices. Further to the left, there are two significant far-left groups (the PCF is considered "parliamentary left"). And further to the right, there are the leftward Socialists.

The referendum will probably be an important step for the PCF in creating a broad electoral alliance for the many elections of 2007-2008 (in particular, we might even make peace with the far-lefties, finally), but I don't think it will mean that we can create a broad party akin to Canadia's NDP. And I'm sure that it won't mean a serious surge in our votes.

I wonder, do you think Chirac will now face more hostility from his own party, with politicans distancing themselves or perhaps calling on Chirac to resign? After a result like this it would seem the presence of Chirac would have to be seen as a liability for their own party.

Chirac will face more hostility, but he still has a strong charisma as the historical leader of the party. After all, his party was entirely his little thing from 1976 (the creation) to 2004. With Sarkozy taking over, it was the first time ever that Chirac wasn't in full control of the party.
Though he has probably lost significant credibility toward his own troops (who'll cheer Sarkozy in 2007), he still has quite some authority and charisma on them. Besides, prime minister Jean Pierre Raffarin is the one that suffers the worst ire of the public opinion. A Chirac fanboy may well put all the blame on Raffarin for the defeat.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
fox news had THE shoddiest reporting ever on the vote, filled with so many journalistic mistakes and bad analysis.

What kind of things do they say? How do they blame the French of everything this time?

[DanS]

I would imagine that Fox News is on the side of the French Non on this one. I haven't heard much good about the constitution here, although of course there has been only mild interest overall.

[DanS]

Regarding who lost on this, undoubtedly d'Estaing will be the big loser from an historical perspective. He was able to come up with a constitution that even the French hated.

[Spiffor]

Yep. It's likely that Giscard never makes it to the history books (actually, that's not true - his presidency over France lacked style, but he seriously contributed to modernizing society)

[Lawrence of Arabia]

What kind of things do they say? How do they blame the French of everything this time?

thisng like "the euro is going to take a big hit" and "this is the end of the united states of europe" and "this constitution would have addressed the large unemployment and slow growth rate and by voting no france has condemned itself to more of the same socialistic stagnation"

[Spiffor]

Indeed, it's fairly pathetic

Don't they have some correspondents in the EU that can explain them how the whole thing works?

[Lawrence of Arabia]

yeah, they had a guy in stading in the Champs de Mars, an american, who was trying to explain what was going on and what the effects were.