More freedom slips away from our American cousins

[MikeH]

Faux?

If that was allowed to happen here I'd be absolutely furious.

I can't imagine why anyone anywhere wouldn't be outraged that passed in the way it did.

You will have to show your ID to get on a bus or a train?!

[MikeH]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
In Germany you can't get on a plane or into a government building without ID. Neither should you be involved in a traffic accident without having your ID with you because if someone calles the cops they weant to know who you are. Without ID, they have a right to keep you at the station for 24 hours from the beginning of the next day. It's not usually enforced this way, but if you're obnoxious and have no ID, you can quickly be fvcked

the practical consequence for citiezens is only one: we always have our ID cards with us.

Nazis!

[Saras]

Nazis

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by MikeH
Faux?

If that was allowed to happen here I'd be absolutely furious.

Something like that has passed there. I even linked to the act. Where's your outrage?

[MikeH]

I'm sure I would be if I knew what it was, but the way it passed is the most outrageous thing not just the act - which is also outrageous.

The thing you linked to said:

Bad title
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

The requested page title was invalid, empty, or an incorrectly linked inter-language or inter-wiki title.

Return to Main Page.

[Ming]

Originally posted by MikeH
I can't imagine why anyone anywhere wouldn't be outraged that passed in the way it did.

Maybe because it happens all the time. It's a standard ploy to attach tons of crap to a bill that will cruise through the process.

[DinoDoc]

Fixed the link

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by MikeH
You will have to show your ID to get on a bus or a train?!

AMericans never ride the bus or the train. It'll affect them as much as if they had to show their ID while riding a boat

[DinoDoc]

Analysis: States might challenge Real ID

By Phil Magers
UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL

Dallas, TX, May. 12 (UPI) -- States are angry about new standards Congress has set for verifying the identity of driver's-license applicants, and some governors are considering a challenge.

Under the Real ID Act states will have three years to comply with the new requirements after President George W. Bush signs it into law, which he is expected to do soon. If they don't agree, their licenses would not be accepted as identification by the federal government.

The driver's-license provisions were strongly opposed by the National Governors Association, the National Conference of State Legislatures, the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators and several civil-rights groups.

The author, Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., argued the additional hassle of verification was a small price to pay to ensure that terrorists can't use licenses for identification as they did in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

"The REAL ID is vital to preventing foreign terrorists from hiding in plain sight while conducting their operations and planning attacks," he said. "By targeting terrorist travel, the REAL ID will assist in our war on terror efforts to disrupt terrorist operations and help secure our borders."

The Senate gave final passage to the provisions as an attachment to an $82 million funding bill for military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. The legislation passed the House last week.

Critics have called the legislation an effort to enlist state authorities as immigration police, which they say is a federal responsibility. Others have called it the first step toward a national identification card.

In his reaction, Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, vice chairman of the governors association, said they were concerned about the federal legislation, which enters an area of responsibility that has been the state's alone for more than 100 years.

"This could force entry-level state employees to do the work of INS agents while requiring states to enforce federal immigration laws the federal government doesn't have the will to enforce," he said. "Governors are looking at all their options. If more than half of the governors agree we're not going down without a fight on this, Congress will have to consider changing this unfunded federal mandate."

There were reports the governors might be considering court action, but an aide to Huckabee would not confirm that Wednesday. He said the governors are concerned, but there is no consensus on what action might be taken, if any.

In a statement issued Wednesday the Coalition for a Secure Driver's License in New York said it would work in the coming months to ensure that every state complies with the new federal standards on drivers' licenses.

Amanda Bowman, the coalition president, said the Sept. 11 terrorists obtained dozens of licenses from states with lax licensing laws in order to execute the attacks. She said every state must comply to make the new law effective.

"If any state refuses to, we will make it abundantly clear, through every means at our disposal, that leaders in that state are putting the entire nation at risk and dangerously circumventing a clear 9/11 commission recommendation," she said.

The Sept. 11 commission recommended stiffer standards to verify the identity of driver's-license applicants, but governors and other state officials have complained that more effective alternatives were overlooked.

States favored the approach of the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Act passed last fall that set up a committee of experts to work with states to improve standards. Many states were already stepping up the security of their systems on their own. The new law would abolish that committee, which met for the first time last month to begin its work.

The Real ID Act will make it tougher for illegal immigrants to secure identification. Laws in 11 states that permit the issuance of licenses to illegal aliens will be abolished. They could obtain a special driver's license, but it would not be valid for identification.

Critics have also warned that the new law will lead to long lines at motor-vehicle offices, and possibly two trips for applicants. In addition to birth certificates, applicants will have to present Social Security numbers and utility bills.

Only drivers' licenses from states that comply with the federal requirements would be accepted for such routine tasks as applying for a passport, passing through an airline ticket counter or opening a bank account.

Governors and legislators are also concerned because the program is another unfunded federal mandate for states. The NCSL has estimated the cost at $500 million, although supporters said it would be more like $100 million.

In March the NCSL identified at least $30 billion in federal unfunded mandates and cost shifts to states within the proposed 2006 federal budget -- on top of mandates and cost shifts in the previous two fiscal years worth at least $51 billion.

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by MikeH


Nazis!

Ah what's the problem. You simply carry it with you in your wallet. You do have that on you most of the time right?

[Ming]

Like I stated in other discussions on having a national Id card... I don't see the problem here. I already carry a drivers license, which has my SS number, Address and picture on it already. I have to validate that info when I get it. This doesn't really change anything. I guess if you are criminal, or illegally in this country, one might consider it a problem...

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Ming
Like I stated in other discussions on having a national Id card... I don't see the problem here.

It's an unfunded mandate that intrudes on an area of State responsibility.

[Ming]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
It's an unfunded mandate that intrudes on an area of State responsibility.

So... I still have no problem with it. I will either pay for it with my federal taxes or state taxes... and as far as it intrudes on State responsibilities... I don't care either, because it should be a national issue and be consistent across all states...

[lord of the mark]

you already need to show ID to get into a Fed govt building or a plane, and I think Amtrak is moving in that direction on its own. Buses I assume they mean intercity, not local buses.


The issue is that some states dont require proof of citizenship to get drivers licences, which is the id most people carry. So the state drivers license you use to get into a federal building is in fact no proof youre a citizen, or even in the county legally. This is considered a security problem. On the other hand requiring states to ask for proof of legal residency would make it hard for illegal migrants to do things, like, well drive. Which may be a good thing, but is not really a security issue, and should be debated as part of immigration policy. (It would also add to the costs of state Departments of motor vehicles)

The law does not actually require states to do anything, theoretically. But if a state doesnt follow its standards for proof of legal residency, that states drivers licenses would no longer be considered valid for entrance to federal buildings. Since most Americans do not carry their passports on a routine basis (and many dont even have one) that would be a major inconvenience to a states residents.

[DeathByTheSword]

the biggest problem i see here...is that they want to use a system that can read it from a couple of meters away without you knowing...that is sick and so big brother is watching you...