the labour party: protecting you from yourself

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by JohnT
$100 borrowed for 30 years at 6% will cost you $216 over the life of the loan. $300 of mandated thermometers will cost the buyer almost $700 over the life of the loan.

When you're buying a $600,000 house (Drogue's house, which isn't even extravagant), these $300 are nothing compared to the difference made by good or by bad haggling skills.

[DeathByTheSword]

it isnt about adjusting the water temp. it is about feelin how hot the water is so to say...again the same as with an electril plug...you dont start with putting in a small light and then go up to the biggest baddest lamp to see when the fuse will spring will you?...no you try something from the top of your head...and a lot of people cant judge **** very well

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Az
What's your point? I have no problem paying 700$ over 30 years for something that might save my life, and the life of my children. Niether should you.

I happen to know the lost ancient art of putting my hand in bath water to see if it is too hot.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Az
What's your point? I have no problem paying 700$ over 30 years for something that might save my life, and the life of my children. Niether should you.

Again, there are perfectly adequate controls over water temperature that already exist. They're called "spigots."

And let's not get histrionic here - "save my life and the life of my children"? Please.

[DeathByTheSword]

yeah and did you ever did it when the water was to hot? voila the problem...if you havent well you can bet your ass other people did...

it is still a stupid issue...but essently the guy is right

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by DeathByTheSword
it is still a stupid issue...

Thank you!

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by DeathByTheSword
it is still a stupid issue...

Hundreds of thousands of scalded people a year disagree with you.

[DeathByTheSword]

next time take the entire sentence into the quote will you

EDIT: BOTH OF YOU

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Az

I don't think people should be forced to pay for the privilege if they don't wish to.

Which reminds me, Is installing the device in every home economically sound?

Generally what happens is they update the building code so that every new home or remodel must have it but if your house was built before the law came into effect then it can stay the way it is.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Hundreds of thousands of scalded people a year disagree with you.

Sorry, Spiff, but I'm gonna have to call you on this one:

Cite on your claim re: the number of people in Britian that are scalded each year due to out of the tap (i.e., non-cooking) hot-water issues at home?

[Spiffor]

In Britain I don't know. But the issue is important even if the statistics are about another developed country:

Originally posted by SpencerH
"About 112,000 of these burns are scald burns. According to Safe Kids Coalition, about 37,000 of these people are 14 or under, and about 18,000 are 5 or under.
The United States has the highest rate of burns in the industrialized world, according to the National Safety Council.
Burns are the second leading cause of death for young children ages 0 to 5.
Children burn faster than adults because they have thinner skin.
Everyday, 300 young children are taken to emergency rooms for burns caused by household water that was too hot. Annually, 3,000 of these children require hospitalization.
Water heaters leave the factory set at 140 to 150 degrees Fahrenheit. It takes 2 seconds for a child to receive third degree burns from water at 150 degrees. It takes 5 seconds if the water is at 140 degrees, and 30 seconds at 130 degrees."

http://www.cdc.gov/nasd/docs/d000701...2/d000702.html

[JohnT]

So, in response to a British call to arms about this non-issue, you cite American statistics.

I see that the cite you quoted doesn't differentiate as to how the water was "too hot", but does its best to imply that it's all due to water heaters. However, in the interests of being fair and balanced, non-quoted sections of the same page claim that "About 50 percent occur because parents put children in water that is too hot."

Note the qualifier "about", meaning "a guess puts it at..." This reduces your "hundreds of thousands" (which itself means a minimum of 200,000) cite to 58,000. Maybe.

And I don't know how things are done in France, but hot water heaters here in the US are easily adjustable. Note the line:

Water heaters leave the factory set at 140 to 150 degrees Fahrenheit. It takes 2 seconds for a child to receive third degree burns from water at 150 degrees. It takes 5 seconds if the water is at 140 degrees, and 30 seconds at 130 degrees.

In order to prevent this at no added cost to consumers or business, enact legislation that has the heaters leave the factory with the temperature adjusted to 110F.

[JohnT]

So, in response to a British call to arms about this non-issue, you cite American statistics.

Not to quote myself, but as an aside I see this happening quote often (here and in other places). Are British/French/etc statistics like this so hard to find, and if so, why?

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by JohnT
So, in response to a British call to arms about this non-issue, you cite American statistics.

Yes, I think Britain and the Us are fairly comparable. If there are so many saldings in the US, I assume there is a similar proportion in the UK. I think it qualifies as a public health issue.

I see that the cite you quoted doesn't differentiate as to how the water was "too hot", but does its best to imply that it's all due to water heaters. However, in the interests of being fair and balanced, non-quoted sections of the same page claim that "About 50 percent occur because parents put children in water that is too hot."

Note the qualifier "about", meaning "a guess puts it at..." This reduces your "hundreds of thousands" (which itself means a minimum of 200,000) cite to 58,000. Maybe.

A year. Do you consider it to be a non-issue?

In order to prevent this at no added cost to consumers or business, enact legislation that has the heaters leave the factory with the temperature adjusted to 110F.

That would be a better idea actually. I'm curious to know what exactly the lawmaker has to say about it.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by JohnT
Not to quote myself, but as an aside I see this happening quote often (here and in other places). Are British/French/etc statistics like this so hard to find, and if so, why?

SpencerH posted stats in this thread, and I only had to pick them up. I couldn't be arsed to look for British statistics.