Possible Major Scandal: Border Patrol told to stand down in Arizona

[MrFun]

Let me reiterate.



Exporting jobs overseas is bad for two reasons:


1) It reinforces unjust, cruel expoitation of third world populations who deserve much better


2) It decreases the number of jobs available here in United States for Americans





Just because number two is one of my concerns, does not exclude me from having number one as my concern also.

Being concerned about the welfare of my own country does not make me racist -- I can harbor that concern at the same time that I can also express humanitarian concern for other peoples in third world countries.

So no, I don't think the whole reason that exporting jobs overseas is bad, because that provides third world peoples jobs. It's the exploitation and deprivation that comes with these types of jobs that makes it bad.

[Kidlicious]

Wanting to see higher wages all around isn't racist Imran. The right wing protectionists you could possibly say are racists, but not Mr. Fun.

[Imran Siddiqui]

It reinforces unjust, cruel expoitation of third world populations who deserve much better

And you suggest.... ?

Without exported jobs, they don't have any. Would you rather they live without a job than having one that isn't up to American standards? Without the exploitation they have no jobs and will recieve no jobs.

Being concerned about the welfare of my own country does not make me racist -- I can harbor that concern at the same time that I can also express humanitarian concern for other peoples in third world countries.

You are concerned for the welfare of your country over the welfare of other countries. Why is your country that much more important? Because you can see it?

You can care for the welfare of your country, but why at the expense of others?

[Whoha]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Without exported jobs, they don't have any.

That is the problem. The world economy is still a plane flying on one engine, and that situation can not last. The fundamental problems in their economies which prevent them from being able to grow within their own domestic market MUST be resolved first. Trade/offshoring/outsourcing will not resolve these problems, the only thing it will do is prop them up.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

It reinforces unjust, cruel expoitation of third world populations who deserve much better

And you suggest.... ?

Without exported jobs, they don't have any. Would you rather they live without a job than having one that isn't up to American standards? Without the exploitation they have no jobs and will recieve no jobs.

I suggest that third world countries wake up, and realize that improving the quality of life for workers is in their own best interest, as it will help improve their own country's economy.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
And you suggest.... ?

Pay more instead of less

[Imran Siddiqui]

I didn't know you had a magic ****ing wand!

I suggest that third world countries wake up, and realize that improving the quality of life for workers is in their own best interest, as it will help improve their own country's economy.

Increasing the quality of life for their workers requires that they let in businesses and allow them to pay the employees at the level they are being paid, which is MUCH higher than the average wage in that country.

I love how this magic wand exists which allows countries to increase the quality of life for their workers by just a wave of the hand.

By having a minimum wage and standards equal to the West, they kill their economies, totally and fully when companies leave en masse.

... South Korea sure screwed up their economy bad by starting out as a sweatshop country.

[Patroklos]

Last time I checked "American" was not a race, nore was "everyone else" a race either.

So if someone wants American's to have jobs over all non Americans, that makes them a nationalist.

Again, your inability to define anything beyond a race based understanding is racism. You think in terms of race=you are a racist.

[MrFun]

Actually, I can play Imran's game, and accuse him of being a racist because he is all for manipulation, and exploitation of third world country populations.

[Imran Siddiqui]

You think in terms of race=you are a racist.

I wonder if you realize how dumb you sound.

*cough*NAACP*cough*

accuse him of being a racist because he is all for manipulation, and exploitation of third world country populations.

Go right ahead. If you want to think it is racism to have 3rd world countries go through a normal economic development cycle, you are entitled to your wrongheaded views.

Though, obviously, I've touched a nerve in you by mentioning your beliefs have a twinge of racism in them. Hmmm... uber-defensiveness usually means there is something else down underneath the surface .

[MrFun]

I'm not racist -- please forgive me though, if you perceive offense at being mislabeled something as being overly defensive as if that mislabel was true.





So now, if someone takes offense at being mislabeled, or having their arguments deliberately distorted, they are actually being overly-defensive and insecure.

I gotta hand it to you Imran -- you're a funny guy.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Wow.... so there is someone who may have been MORE defensive about something than you were about this? I find that a bit hard to believe.

I don't know what mislabling there was since you admited that you'd rather see Americans get jobs than people in other countries who did not have to same conditions as Americans, even though a vast majority of 3rd world countries do not have those conditions (how coincidental ).

[MrFun]

Again, just because I am more concerned with the well-being of the people in my own country over others, does not make me racist.

And besides that, consider the fact that American citizens are of many different races and ethnicities. How can you insist on the mislabel of my being racist -- what race group am I racist against, if I include all American citizens regardless of race?

And, as I have alreay said, I would like to see the quality of life improve for third world country populations.



Anyway, I have to get to bed now.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And besides that, consider the fact that American citizens are of many different races and ethnicities. How can you insist on the mislabel of my being racist -- what race group am I racist against, if I include all American citizens regardless of race?

As I've said, I consider xenophobia to be a form of racism. And I don't recall many people getting up in arms when a company transfers to, oh, Western Europe. It's always how horrible it is when companies move to Mexico or India. I wonder what that is.

I think being more concerned with the people in your country to the detriment of others makes you a touch xenophobic and nationalistic in your outlook.

Do you simply object to the term racist? Would you rather I call you a xenophobe? Or a ultra-nationalist?

All same sides of a coin to me.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

And besides that, consider the fact that American citizens are of many different races and ethnicities. How can you insist on the mislabel of my being racist -- what race group am I racist against, if I include all American citizens regardless of race?

As I've said, I consider xenophobia to be a form of racism. And I don't recall many people getting up in arms when a company transfers to, oh, Western Europe. It's always how horrible it is when companies move to Mexico or India. I wonder what that is.

I think being more concerned with the people in your country to the detriment of others makes you a touch xenophobic and nationalistic in your outlook.

Do you simply object to the term racist? Would you rather I call you a xenophobe? Or a ultra-nationalist?

All same sides of a coin to me.

Yea, but given that you need to communicate effectively with people it is probably better if you use the definitions of terms that are either widely accepted or correct. Someone who is out for their own on a national scale is simply a nationalist. They may have other traits which make other labels appropriate, but I don't think this is the case for Mr. Fun.