How many security council resolutions would they have had by now if...

[Lancer]

Verto

che, Boris, Pekka...you guys! You remember the resolutions, no? They were resolutions to do things like allowing greater access to weapons inspectors, Hans Blix was constantly complaing..., PROVING that Saddam had destroyed his WMD (he never even tried), Even Saddam's generals were totally convinced that Saddam had WMD. The UN resolutions were ignored EVEN THOUGH Saddam had no WMD. Can't figure that guy. Nuts I guess.

Anyway, if the US hadn't gone into Iraq the UN would have still been making resolutions that they totally lacked the resolve to back up, and Saddam would have still been ignoring them, basicly because he owned them.

[Lancer]

"Exactly what resolutions are you talking about, Lancer?"

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/ir...ade/sect2.html



Shut em up, shut em d o w n !

[Tingkai]

Well thank the gods that the US was there to force Saddam to get rid of the weapons he didn't have. If it hadn't been for the US, Saddam would have still be refusing to prove that he didn't have these weapons.

How many civilians have died in Bush's war?

How many civilians has the US killed today?

[Verto]

How many civilians has the US killed today?

Not enough.
Population control

[Lancer]

How many civilians were saved from being killed in Saddam's torture chambers?

[Tingkai]

Let's pick an absurdly high number of 10,000 a year.

So far, between 100,000 to 200,000 civilians have died during Bush's war (see Lancet article) and more are dying every day.

Which is worse?

[Lancer]

That 100,000 seems high. However the Iraqis will have their freedom. Freedom to live as they wish, without daily fear of the secret police and the torture chamber. Freedom of speech, the right to stand up and say ENOUGH! ...as you are doing here Tinkai. Would you deny the Iraqis the freedom you use to such ill effect? What price freedom? Was the American revolution worth it? Was the liberation of europe in WW2? The battles to free places like the Philippines? How many have died for freedom?

As many as it takes.

[Tingkai]

The Lancet article concluded that 100.000 is a conservative estimate.

Unfortunately, they don't have freedom to live as they wish.

They don't have freedom of speech.
From the IHT:

BAGHDAD In less than a year, Mithal al-Alusi fell from high-flying politician to hounded outcast, losing his job and his party membership, and surviving, by his count, nine assassination attempts, including one that killed his two children.

His offense: visiting Israel, and then agitating for peace with the Jewish state.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/04/28/news/reformist.php

Iraqis must live with the daily fear of being killed in bomb attacks, killed in the crossfire of battle, killed at US checkpoints, killed by criminals who control the streets at night.

More importantly, who are you to tell them that they must die for their freedom. Shouldn't they have the freedom to choose? Shouldn't the Iraqis have the freedom to kick the US troops out of their country?

[Lancer]

The Iraqi police believe in their freedom enough to put their lives on the line every day. Many have died fighting to free their country. Why don't you want to give them a fighting chance?

Maybe because of a dislike for the US or Bush? So much perhaps that you want us to abandon the Iraqi police before they are ready to take over security? Do you want us to fail so much? Are these the reasons Tinkai? Think on it...

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Lancer
The Iraqi police believe in their freedom enough to put their lives on the line every day. Many have died fighting to free their country. Why don't you want to give them a fighting chance?

Yes, the Iraqi police are indeed brave. When the US troops retreat to their safe havens every night, the Iraqi police are left on their own to deal with an impossible mess. Unfortunately, there are very few of them.

But fighting to free their country? Free their country from what?

The US has created a mess in Iraq and the Iraqi people are paying the price. Iraq is a tinderbox ready to explode into sectarian civil war. If the US stays, there will be continued fighting. If the US leaves, there will be infighting. Either way, the Iraqi people pay the price.

So spare me the sanctimonious BS about how the US has brought love, peace and freedom to Iraq.

There is one possible solution. Pull the US out and put UN peacekeepers in. This offers a slim hope, but it is better than the no hope offered by the White House. But Bush and his buddies will never agree to give up control of Iraqi oil.

[Lancer]

"So spare me the sanctimonious BS about how the US has brought love, peace and freedom to Iraq."

You're in my thread bozo. Spare yourself.

[Master Zen]

Stupidest thread I've seen in quite some time now...

If the US hates the UN so much, get the f*ck out of it and stop whining.

[Lancer]

"Stupidest thread I've seen in quite some time now..."

Maybe you belong then.