Defense: (Pfc. Lynndie) England Oxygen-Deprived at Birth

[Az]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
No, it didn't go over my head. People are trying to get the Pentagon to eliminate the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy. No one is trying to get them to encourage rampant sluttery. These people recognize that there is no legitimate reason for the DADT rule. No one is even talking about relaxing policies on sleeping around because it is widely regarded as less than appropriate behaviour for our armed forces, certainly not something that should be related at the same level as DADT.

ah, well, now we get back on topic: is it ok to be a 'slut'?

I say, if she was a man, she wouldn't be criticized at all -> double standards.

[DRoseDARs]

I've tried an informal search for military conduct codes regarding sluttery (obviously, using REAL words as my search terms ) and have had difficulty, so I shall maintain that I am ASSUMING there are codes against such behaviour.

Originally posted by Az
ah, well, now we get back on topic: is it ok to be a 'slut'?

No, it's not. For one thing, in a war zone getting pregnant is a serious lapse in judgement for both mother and father, making the mother unfit for combat, threatening the health of the child, and hoisting more responsibility on the shoulders of the father, a fellow soldier. Then there's the risk of spreading of sexually transmitted diseases, which threatens the combat readiness of units engaged in such activities. Then there's also more intangible things like conducting one's self in a proper manner. They are expected to be professionals and to conduct themselves as such. Perhaps it's just the Marines that are supposed to follow rigid behaviour programming when on-duty and/or in a war zone.

If people want to sleep around like sluts fine, but do it on your own time not on the USM's. You're in the military and in a war zone. Your sexual needs damn well better not interfere with your obligations to an all-volunteer military. You signed up for it and if you're having trouble getting enough tail because of your service, masturbate.

I say, if she was a man, she wouldn't be criticized at all -> double standards.

I agree.

[Dis]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
I've tried an informal search for military conduct codes regarding sluttery (obviously, using REAL words as my search terms ) and have had difficulty, so I shall maintain that I am ASSUMING there are codes against such behaviour.



No, it's not. For one thing, in a war zone getting pregnant is a serious lapse in judgement for both mother and father, making the mother unfit for combat, threatening the health of the child, and hoisting more responsibility on the shoulders of the father, a fellow soldier. Then there's the risk of spreading of sexually transmitted diseases, which threatens the combat readiness of units engaged in such activities. Then there's also more intangible things like conducting one's self in a proper manner. They are expected to be professionals and to conduct themselves as such. Perhaps it's just the Marines that are supposed to follow rigid behaviour programming when on-duty and/or in a war zone.

If people want to sleep around like sluts fine, but do it on your own time not on the USM's. You're in the military and in a war zone. Your sexual needs damn well better not interfere with your obligations to an all-volunteer military. You signed up for it and if you're having trouble getting enough tail because of your service, masturbate.



I agree.

you don't understand, it is considered okay for women to get pregnant. The military will never say anything because they don't want to give the impression they are against women's rights.

In the navy, women would get pregnant on purpose just to get out of long deployments. And yes these women did get pregnant while actually out to sea.

It's not against the rules to have sexal behaviour with your peers (like I said it can't be NCO's if you are low enlisted and no officers or other enlisted in your direct chain of command)

There is nothing in the rules against an enlisted having sex with as many people as they can.

for officers it's a little different, as some behaviour could be considered conduct unbecoming of an officer.

[DRoseDARs]

I knew about the rules against officers*, but turning a blind eye to both low ranks' sluttery AND pregnancies for the purpose of reneging on your obligations?

*Edit: Which is to say I'm aware of the "conduct unbecoming" term is used in that situation; I didn't know if it could be applied to others.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
Surely, her slutfullness violates a number of military conduct rules and regulations?

Like the prohibition against ******** really ugly chicks?

[DRoseDARs]

Please read through the rest of the thread before responding.



Edit: I'm going to bed now (4:25am pst) so I won't be answering for a while...

[Pekka]

Az, no it's not double standards. Who says army is a democracy. First of all, men go to prossies and bang them, I don't care how much they do it but if they are back in time, no problem. Men can't get thesemvels pregnant, that's just the way it is. A woman soldier goes and gets herself pregnant when she is supposed to be in duty (serving the army)... get the hell out. Yes, pick up your things and leave with no pension, slut, or get rid of the baby.

If a man would go to prossies, get themselves STD that disables them from their active duties for a longer time of period, then they are in the same situation, and they should get punished the same the woman does. The point is they should both get punished. IT's a soldier's OWN responsibility to keep themselves in fit shape to prevent accidents etc and to make sure they can do their duty. Any kind of sex related things are unnecessary thus their OWN fault, thus breaking their code they swore to uphold, their duty and all that ****. Those people don't deserve to eat in the same table as the rest of the ones who are acting properly. They should eat with MPs dogs and fight it over. And then get kicked out of the army.

I thought it was a pro army, yes?? Time to meet some standards on social level, meaning screw the social contacts and welcome the training. Forget the weekend passes and fast food, welcome porridge and miserable weathers. BEing a soldier shouldn't be fun. The motivation comes from within. If you have heart, you show it when it counts (in training). You don't go 'uuh ooh, but I broke my gameboy'. No.. you go 'BRING IT ON BASTARDS!'. No fooling around, the only sexual pleasure you should have is the porn mag and the **** IF you managed to smuggle it without being detected. That's it.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Pekka
Az, no it's not double standards. Who says army is a democracy. First of all, men go to prossies and bang them, I don't care how much they do it but if they are back in time, no problem. Men can't get thesemvels pregnant, that's just the way it is. A woman soldier goes and gets herself pregnant when she is supposed to be in duty (serving the army)... get the hell out. Yes, pick up your things and leave with no pension, slut, or get rid of the baby.

If a man would go to prossies, get themselves STD that disables them from their active duties for a longer time of period, then they are in the same situation, and they should get punished the same the woman does. The point is they should both get punished. IT's a soldier's OWN responsibility to keep themselves in fit shape to prevent accidents etc and to make sure they can do their duty. Any kind of sex related things are unnecessary thus their OWN fault, thus breaking their code they swore to uphold, their duty and all that ****. Those people don't deserve to eat in the same table as the rest of the ones who are acting properly. They should eat with MPs dogs and fight it over. And then get kicked out of the army.

I thought it was a pro army, yes?? Time to meet some standards on social level, meaning screw the social contacts and welcome the training. Forget the weekend passes and fast food, welcome porridge and miserable weathers. BEing a soldier shouldn't be fun. The motivation comes from within. If you have heart, you show it when it counts (in training). You don't go 'uuh ooh, but I broke my gameboy'. No.. you go 'BRING IT ON BASTARDS!'. No fooling around, the only sexual pleasure you should have is the porn mag and the **** IF you managed to smuggle it without being detected. That's it.

how many times do I have to say it? There is no double standard. The military looks the other way when women get pregnant on duty. they are allowed to have sex. As I've said, many women purposely get pregnant to get out of long deployments overseas.

yes I know the goverment owns you in the military. But we weren't that much a slave.

enlisted women do not face disciplinary action for getting pregnant. And in many cases it won't hurt their careers (it will in some cases if they are a single mother because they won't be allowed sea duty)

[Az]

how many times do I have to say it? There is no double standard.

I didn't say that this was a military double standard. It's just a general anti "omg she's evil - and a slut too! " prudish attitudes.

She's evil and she should hang out in prison for what she did ... well.. in prison. Don't bring her sex life into this.

[Dis]

I agree with the last part. some attitudes towards women will remain. Militar life or civilian life.

and her sex life has nothing to do with her crimes in this case.

[Dis]

I posted a link above from a rather liberal website. But it does have a good point.

It seems right wingers are most upset with Lynddie England over the other abusers. My theory is that most right wingers have outdated attitudes towards women, and really have a problem seeing a woman in a dominate position over a man. This is why the leash photo draws the most outrage.

But I do believe she's a dumb hillbilly who let the other guys talk her in to this. Not that she should get off scott free. She deserves prison time. But it's obvious she's not smart enough or charismatic enough to be the one who orchestrated this whole thing.

Her actions do not upset me any more than Graner's actions did. I have no problem seeing a woman holding a naked man with a leash.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
I thought she was pregnant by one of the other guys in her unit.

huh huh he said "unit"

She's had the kid - with Graner, the supposed ringleader.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Dissident
There is nothing in the rules against an enlisted having sex with as many people as they can.

for officers it's a little different, as some behaviour could be considered conduct unbecoming of an officer.

For enlisteds too, it can be prosecuted under the general article of the UCMJ as conduct which is service discrediting, say, if the local base town's mayor's wife is caught doing some E3 buck and it becomes a big local stink.

An O4 from Ft. Sill actually got five years for doing the mayor's wife, but it wasn't prosecuted as conduct unbecoming an officer, it was prosecuted as conduct tending to bring discredit on the service, which applies to both officers and enlisteds. It's just that mayor's wives and such are probably more likely to bang officers than enlisted.

[Az]

Man, this sucks.

[MichaeltheGreat]

No mayor's wives for you, then, eh?