What have we learned from Iraq?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Really, what was the verbage for not following the sanctions?

The verbage for interfereing with weapons inspections? And PLEASSSSSSE try and deny that one.

IIRC, the words used were "serious consequences." That was for the SC to decide, not for the US to decide. The SC did not authorize an invasion of Iraq.

#2, Iraq was complying with the weapons inspections before the invasion.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Really, what was the verbage for not following the sanctions?

The verbage for interfereing with weapons inspections? And PLEASSSSSSE try and deny that one.

"Serious consequences". The verbage didn't mention whyt they were supposed to be precisely (actually, that verbage was chosen precisely because it was vague enough), and it didn't mention which country should lead the sanctions.

The US have not acted according to 1441, simply because no mission was clearly stated, and no precise country was mandated to go for it. If Iran had unilaterally attacked Iraq "because of 1441", it would have been just as legal as what the US did.

[kronic]

Originally posted by Dissident
What self-respecting country still uses conscription

Germany unfortunately is a ****ing conservative country.

But then, Germany isn't a self-respecting country anyway.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Patroklos


Interesting as they were amoungst the number one targets.

Though I am sure whatever was left from the divisions rendered combat ineffective found its way into the efforts to rebuild the guard.

Tawakalna, Medina and Hammurabi divisions were major targets as they were theater reserve (nominally, more realistically they were there to act as regime enforcers against conscript divisions) in the KTO. That accounts for three of eight IRG divisions. The other five divisions were largely or totally ignored. The IRG was rapidly reorganized and reconstituted from available personnel and equipment after the gulf war.

All heavy equipment in the three IRG divisions in the KTO was pretty much trashed, but except for Tawakalna, which was hammered by McCaffrey's 24ID, IRG personnel losses were not extreme.

BTW, are you still a squid nugget, or did you make O2 yet?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ned
Largest? I doubt it. The commies and SDS's were the largest.

Neither SDS nor the entire communist movement accounted for more than a few thousand people, Ned. At best a couple dozen thousand. If even as little as 1% of the Vets were opposed to Vietnam, that's still close to 20,000. And it was much, much more than 1% opposition from the Vets.

[Patroklos]

BTW, are you still a squid nugget, or did you make O2 yet?

August

[Patroklos]

Iraq was complying with the weapons inspections before the invasion.

If you mean 1 out of every ten days as "before," then yes.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Patroklos
If you mean 1 out of every ten days as "before," then yes.

Well, considering no WMDs have been found and our governmnet no believes none existed, there is material proof that Iraq complied with the inspections.

Sorry, please try again.

[Patroklos]

Iraq was complying with the weapons inspections before the invasion.

laughable.

Alright che, the UN has mandated weapon inspections on my apartment, which I refuse to allow happen for ten years, but after the police break in they found nothing.

Does not change the fact that I illegally denied inspectors into my premesis for ten years.

Sorry, please try again.

And of course your justification for breaking said law is from AFTER the war, awesome.

Concidently I am glad you have admitted that Saddam's own refuseal was his downfall

[Ned]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Neither SDS nor the entire communist movement accounted for more than a few thousand people, Ned. At best a couple dozen thousand. If even as little as 1% of the Vets were opposed to Vietnam, that's still close to 20,000. And it was much, much more than 1% opposition from the Vets.

If you make distinctions between card carrying members and the relatively unwashed, pot smoking, girl chasers that inhabit communist rallies, I agree.

[Whaleboy]

What we learned from Iraq?

That I was right on almost all counts. The exception being that oil prices didn't drop as much as I'd expected, but nevertheless...

Vindication
Situation in Iraq
Neo-cons + Hawks
Pacifism
Ted Striker

[Ned]

Whaleboy, tell me you "knew" all along that it was about the OIL.

[Whaleboy]

Operation Iraqi Liberation

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Patroklos
laughable.

Alright che, the UN has mandated weapon inspections on my apartment, which I refuse to allow happen for ten years, but after the police break in they found nothing.

Does not change the fact that I illegally denied inspectors into my premesis for ten years.

Okay, suppose that the police have a warrent to search your apartment for drugs, and you are required to comply but you don't have to let them see anything that doesn't have to do with drugs. You have a safe with child porn in it. You obviously don't want the cops going in there. You aren't required to open the safe, because it has nothing to do with drugs, but obviously until the police check, they can't rule it out. Thus you have catch-22.

This is sort of the problem that Iraq faced. Iraq complied completely with the inspectors in the 90s, but kept certain information away from the inspectors that had nothing to do with WMDs. Because they made such an effort to conceal it, however, the inspectors were suspicious and demanded to see what the Iraqis were hiding. They had no mandate to see what the Iraqis were hiding (which, according to Scott Ritter, who all you convservatives owe an apology to, were the secert whereabuts of Hussein). Eventually, it turns out, the CIA was using the inspectors to spy on Iraq. The U.S. had no mandate to do this, and Iraq had every right to expell the U.S. spies. A month later, Clinton pulled the rest of the inspectors out in order to bomb Iraq in operation "Distract from My Impeachment."

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ned
If you make distinctions between card carrying members and the relatively unwashed, pot smoking, girl chasers that inhabit communist rallies, I agree.

Not every anti-war vet was in Vietnam Vets Against the War.

BTW, Ned, people in communist organizations are not allowed to either smoke pot or chase girls, and we're strongly encouraged to wash.