Immigration policies.

[VetLegion]

I'll give my explanation of why Albanians have a strong mafia, not just in Greece, but also in Italy and other countries where they are significantly present. My conclusions, so take it with a grain of salt.

As all of you know, mafias are generally organized along ethnic lines. Albania is the only country in Europe with a healthy natural population growth rate. It is also a country of scarce resources. Albanians have to look for better life abroad and thus have a huge diaspora. In Italy, Greece, ex-Yugoslavia, USA... and so on. Most of those immigrants have arrived illegaly. There is a huge mafia in Albania that does human trafficking. They also smuggle drugs and various other goods. So mafia becomes very involved with immigrants from the start.

Couple that with fact that Albanian society is structured well for mafia like organizations. Because of geographical and historical reasons the whole country is divided in clans, tribes and closely knit families. This organizational structure is such from necessety, it ensured stability in a dangerous country during centuries of lawlessness. But it still exists today (unlike the nuclear families in most of Europe).

Thirdly, the effective, but relatively small number of criminals and mafiosos will give a bad name to the rest of immigrants, who are honest people.

Fouth, and last, in most societies they come into, Albanians are viewed as culturally inferior. How explicit is the racism against them depends from country to country. So the argument that they fill some criminal or borderline criminal positions because they aren't allowed much alse may hold some truth too.

[Provost Harrison]

Why bother? I mean, who wants to emigrate to Greece?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn


Try telling a black American living in the heart of the South to "improve" his or her image in order to get jobs or advancements.

Sometimes its not entirely the individual's fault if they can't succeed in a particular society. I think often times there are historical and social precendents that work against people - which is what I believe is at least partially to blame with the case of Albanians in Greece.

I would never say it is entirely the individual's fault. You also seem to have changed the subject from criminality to lack of success. These two things don't necessarily go hand in hand.

[Caligastia]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Immigration policies.

Originally posted by Spiffor

What a great statement. Any individual Albanian wishing to make money honestly in Greece should be punished because he shares the same nationality as some troublemakers.

That isn't what I said. Look again.

You are advocating collective punishment for individual crimes (and the perception that follows). Congrats

Nope.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by Caligastia


I would never say it is entirely the individual's fault. You also seem to have changed the subject from criminality to lack of success. These two things don't necessarily go hand in hand.

But they often do. I doubt these criminal Albanians are living the high life. They're most likely people who have been incapable of thriving otherwise. And for similar reasons that blacks in the US are among the most likely to commit crimes... or would you suggest that the US deport all blacks back to Africa?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn


But they often do. I doubt these criminal Albanians are living the high life. They're most likely people who have been incapable of thriving otherwise.

I'd like to see some empirical evidence of this.

... or would you suggest that the US deport all blacks back to Africa?

No, I'd suggest that they stop coddling them with racial preferences and recognise that unequal results are not proof of discrimination.