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  • Immigration policies.

    I've been reading that the new immigration laws will require immigrants to take a greek language and civilization test amongst other things. That will give them the right to stay for more time. Among all the immigrants in Greece (10%+ of the population of 10 million) the Albanians are 750,000, that is the 1/3 of the total albanian population. The GDP they return to their countries (together with the Albanians from Italy) accounts for 50% of the total albanian GDP.

    Now. The majority of them is hard working. But the top list of criminals and there's a crime wave after crime wave here is albanian after the greek crime. These are facts. And they can be explained.

    Now There are a lot of people from Pakistan. They have never given rise to crime. Then there are a lot of chinese. They may bring very cheap products and close down greek businesses but they are not prone to crime either.

    But. Albanians do speak greek fluently, do know the country's history and they will be the most likely to ace the exams. The Pakistanis and Chinese do not speak greek and have only vague ideas about greek history. They will fail the exams.

    Am I right in assuming that a country has the right to choose where its immigrants come from? And if that's the case then I see no meaning at all in the government's plan to put these plans in action when it is painfully obvious that they will benefit some and put others in disadvantage, and those who will be put on disadvantage are much less prone to crime than those who will be given the advantage. Doesn't make sense.

  • #2
    I think it does make sense. Long-term immigrants are not supposed to be in just for the money, but they are also supposed to be an actual part of the overall society. If your Albanians ace the tests, maybe you should treat the Albanian crime problems like you'd treat Greek crime problems., for the Albanians would be clearly integrated enough.
    "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
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    • #3
      No problems with making immigrants learn about the history and values of their new home.
      Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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      • #4
        You raise an interesting point Spiffor. There is actually a choice:
        Do we want an immigrant group who's members are prominent to crime and that is heavy crime (rapes, murders, and burglaries of all sorts and shootings), who get drunk on the pavement and stare at you like they are ready to kill you in your own neighborhood but who a large part of them (by far the largest part of them) is already integrated with their children going to school etc.
        Or do we want groups which are always polite, do not get drunk and cause problems and have no inclination to crime. But who at the same time will need a far longer time to integrate if they will at all.

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        • #5
          If the Chinese need to know Greek in order to get into Greece they will learn it. They're quite capable...
          Long time member @ Apolyton
          Civilization player since the dawn of time

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Oerdin
            No problems with making immigrants learn about the history and values of their new home.
            How about natives?
            I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
            - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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            • #7
              Re: Immigration policies.

              Originally posted by paiktis22
              Am I right in assuming that a country has the right to choose where its immigrants come from?
              No. Have you ever considered that many Albanians are prone to crime because your society is extremely intolerant towards them and perhaps have marginalized them just a bit too? We have quite a few Albanians here in Canada too, and guess what, no crime wave. Gee, what a coincidence.

              So, no. You can't choose what countries your immigrants come from for your own xenophobic pruposes. At least not officially.

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              • #8
                Re: Re: Immigration policies.

                Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn


                No. Have you ever considered that many Albanians are prone to crime because your society is extremely intolerant towards them and perhaps have marginalized them just a bit too?
                Yes I have. That is still, assuming it happens, no excuse for heavy crime.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by paiktis22
                  You raise an interesting point Spiffor. There is actually a choice:
                  Do we want an immigrant group who's members are prominent to crime and that is heavy crime (rapes, murders, and burglaries of all sorts and shootings), who get drunk on the pavement and stare at you like they are ready to kill you in your own neighborhood but who a large part of them (by far the largest part of them) is already integrated with their children going to school etc.
                  Or do we want groups which are always polite, do not get drunk and cause problems and have no inclination to crime. But who at the same time will need a far longer time to integrate if they will at all.
                  Again, its not them its you. How a country treats its immigrants will decide how those immigrants act in their new country. And from the ethno-centric arrogance I've deteted from alot of Greeks on these boards, I'd probably want to start a crime wave as a non-Greek immigrant there too.

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                  • #10
                    Fine. Although you simply repeat your first point.

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                    • #11
                      Paiktis22,

                      You're sounding kind of racist. Do you consider yourself a racist?
                      I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                      - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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                      • #12
                        Nope.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by paiktis22
                          Fine. Although you simply repeat your first point.
                          What new is there to say?

                          Albanians come to Greece. Greeks marginalize Albanians, calling them "cultureless barbarians...'culture oozes from our pores' *spit*". Albanians turn to crime.

                          I'm just saying, if the behaviour of the Greeks on this board towards non-Greek culture is any indication of how Greeks treat their immigrants, then it should be no surprise why certain ethnic groups would cause more trouble than others in Greece. And I'm pretty sure it is, as I've been friends with quite a few Greeks growing up. Greeks and ethno-centricism tend to go hand in hand.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
                            How a country treats its immigrants will decide how those immigrants act in their new country.
                            While I don't believe it's that simple (and "their new country" sounds a bit naive) I agree that plays a very large role. However there is a clear question asked above and you seem to paint all immigrants with the same brush whereas there are very serious differences between different immigrant groups.

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                            • #15
                              Blaming the crime on the way Greeks treat Albanians doesn't make sense. If Albanians commit crimes because they have been marginalized, why haven't Chinese and Pakistani immigrants been marginalized? Perhaps because they don't commit crimes in the first place.

                              If Albanians are being marginalized, they probably brought it on themselves.
                              ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
                              ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

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