Immigration policies.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by paiktis22


While I don't believe it's that simple (and "their new country" sounds a bit naive) I agree that plays a very large role. However there is a clear question asked above and you seem to paint all immigrants with the same brush whereas there are very serious differences between different immigrant groups.

I know, and I think the fact that Greeks have a history of belittling their balkan neighbours plays a part in this.

Blaming the crime on the way Greeks treat Albanians doesn't make sense. If Albanians commit crimes because they have been marginalized, why haven't Chinese and Pakistani immigrants been marginalized? Perhaps because they don't commit crimes in the first place.

Like I said to Paiktis, Greeks and Albanians have a history of misunderstanding, while Greeks and Pakistanis or Chinese do not. Plus, judging from Paiktis' post, there seems to be a degree of "good immigrant, bad immigrant" here... which no doubt adds to all this.

If Albanians are being marginalized, they probably brought it on themselves.

Thats a bit simplistic.

[Kontiki]

Shouldn't this thread be on FFZ?

[Caligastia]

No doubt the history between the Albanians and the Greeks plays a part, but the Albanians must take some of the blame for their behaviour. They can choose whether to re-enforce the stereotype or not. If they have a bad image, it is up to them to change it. Saying "we are marginalized" is no excuse for criminal behaviour.

[Caligastia]

Re: Re: Immigration policies.

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
So, no. You can't choose what countries your immigrants come from for your own xenophobic pruposes. At least not officially.

What a ridiculous statement. Any group of people should have the right to exclude members of other groups if they wish - especially members of groups that are hostile towards them.

[Az]

In the long run, any immigration without assimilation is a problem, and this is a fact. The only solution is to take the better parts of the immigrant's mentality, and adopt them, while erasing all other traces. I call it "The Borg approach".

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Kidicious


How about natives?

Supposedly our education system does that.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Kontiki
Shouldn't this thread be on FFZ?

No, a FFZ thread would be about how Albanians are secretly Democrats so Democrats must support crime and there for are OBL's right hand man and should be arrested.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by Caligastia
If they have a bad image, it is up to them to change it. Saying "we are marginalized" is no excuse for criminal behaviour.

Of course it isn't. But I don't think it has to do with Albanians having a bad image. I would attribute it more to Greek prejudice against them by preventing them from getting good paying jobs and from advancing in the jobs they do get. Like I said, Greeks (thought not all) are an incredibly ethno-centric people, and I can only imagine what it would be like to be a non-Greek in that country. Especially coming from a country which hasn't been on the best of terms with Greece.

What a ridiculous statement. Any group of people should have the right to exclude members of other groups if they wish - especially members of groups that are hostile towards them.

Of course they have the right to do it, I'm just saying those kind of xenophobic actions and attitudes are usually masked by a poor excuse for national security.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn


Of course it isn't. But I don't think it has to do with Albanians having a bad image. I would attribute it more to Greek prejudice against them by preventing them from getting good paying jobs and from advancing in the jobs they do get. Like I said, Greeks (thought not all) are an incredibly ethno-centric people, and I can only imagine what it would be like to be a non-Greek in that country. Especially coming from a country which hasn't been on the best of terms with Greece.

By saying that the higher Albanian crime rate is due to Greek prejudice against them you make excuses for them. As I said before - there is NO EXCUSE.

If the Albanians living in Greece don't like the way they are treated they have two choices - try to improve their image or go back to Albania.

Of course they have the right to do it, I'm just saying those kind of xenophobic actions and attitudes are usually masked by a poor excuse for national security.

Can you expand on that a bit?

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by Caligastia
If the Albanians living in Greece don't like the way they are treated they have two choices - try to improve their image or go back to Albania.

Try telling a black American living in the heart of the South to "improve" his or her image in order to get jobs or advancements.

Sometimes its not entirely the individual's fault if they can't succeed in a particular society. I think often times there are historical and social precendents that work against people - which is what I believe is at least partially to blame with the case of Albanians in Greece.

[Dr Strangelove]

Does Greece allow immigrants to become citizens? What are the requirements?

[Spiffor]

Re: Re: Re: Immigration policies.

Originally posted by Caligastia
What a ridiculous statement. Any group of people should have the right to exclude members of other groups if they wish - especially members of groups that are hostile towards them.

What a great statement. Any individual Albanian wishing to make money honestly in Greece should be punished because he shares the same nationality as some troublemakers.

You are advocating collective punishment for individual crimes (and the perception that follows). Congrats

[VetLegion]

How many Greek girls would marry an Albanian? All the language tests in the world won't integrate them if there is no cross-marriage. They could coexist peacefuly, near-but-separate, but I wouldn't call it integration.

I predict that Greeks will have no (bigger than now) problems with Albanians while the economy is doing fine. Once a significant crisis happens, we might see anything.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by VetLegion
How many Greek girls would marry an Albanian? All the language tests in the world won't integrate them if there is no cross-marriage. They could coexist peacefuly, near-but-separate, but I wouldn't call it integration.

Depends. If the Albanian is perfectly integrated, grew up with Greeks at school as an equal peer, and holds a regular job while behaving like the average Greek, then I guess his Albanian origin would make very little difference. Yes, even in the FOPG

[VetLegion]

Nah. Even if the girl would, her mom, granny and entire family would be against it. Albanians are mostly muslims. In 500 years of benevolent Turkish rule (bless them), when peace, law and order was the rule in Greece, there wasn't a single mixed marriage recorded, because Turks are muslims.