David Levine and Michele Boldrin: Economical analysys of MPAA ads

[Ming]

Originally posted by Asher
If I have no intention of going to the theatre to see it, nor to rent it, nor to subscribe to crap like HBO...where is the lost revenue?

You must have some interest if you take the time to steal it... you are getting some entertainment value for your theft.

Your rational is kind of silly... you are saying it's ok to steal something if you have no intent to pay for it...



Sounds like something any average petty thief would say

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ming
You must have some interest if you take the time to steal it... you are getting some entertainment value for your theft.

This theft is pretty much effortless.

Heck, There are at least three movies I downloaded (on a total of 6 or something: I'm not interested in movies) that I never bothered to watch ever since they landed on my hd. When your filesharing client runs 24/7, it's easy to add some extra stuff you're not really interested in.

Your rational is kind of silly... you are saying it's ok to steal something if you have no intent to pay for it...



Sounds like something any average petty thief would say

I don't want to say it's ok or not (I don't intend to discuss moral standpoints in here), but I want to say there's an actual audience of fileshared movies that would never pay to see the movies. I and a few friends are internet junkies, whose main source of entertainment are computers.
A friend of mine never watched movies before filesharing. It simply didn't interest him. When filesharing came, since he has a collector's streak, he downloaded pretty much anything (and had tons of stuff on his HD he never even watched). He had an amazing collection, but just for the collection's sake. It's not merely the fact that it was free that got his attention (there are free movies on TV as well), but simply that filesharing is so damn convenient.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yeah, I was just thinking that. Apparently it was worth 2 hours of your time to see it. You aren't paying for it, but getting the entertainment value.

Hey, you know, I have no intention of paying for a ticket to an Arena Football league, so if I sneak in, where is the lost revenue?

[Ming]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Hey, you know, I have no intention of paying for a ticket to an Arena Football league, so if I sneak in, where is the lost revenue?

If you buy a beer or two while at the game, they might let you in for free

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ming
You must have some interest if you take the time to steal it... you are getting some entertainment value for your theft.

I'm not sure you're aware how easy it is.

I go to sites and it shows popular movies...I click a link and it downloads it overnight and stores it on my HD. When I'm bored I'll click through them and watch some of them. Most of them I don't even make it all the way through before I groan and turn it off.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Yeah, I was just thinking that. Apparently it was worth 2 hours of your time to see it. You aren't paying for it, but getting the entertainment value.

You're assuming
1) I watch the whole thing (not always the case...usually not the case)
2) I get "entertainment value" out of it

Sometimes I think they need to pay me to watch that crap (Spiderman 1 & 2).

Hey, you know, I have no intention of paying for a ticket to an Arena Football league, so if I sneak in, where is the lost revenue?

If you would honestly never pay to go see one, and never take up any space a paying customer would use...where is the lost revenue?

[Ming]

I love how common thieves defend their actions...

You must have some interest to take even the few minutes to start downloading them, and then start watching them... Your "they need to pay me" argument is as lame as your other rationals... you are a thief... which is fine... just admit it... instead of hiding behind rational worthy of young children

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ming
I love how common thieves defend their actions...

You must have some interest to take even the few minutes to start downloading them, and then start watching them... Your "they need to pay me" argument is as lame as your other rationals... you are a thief... which is fine... just admit it... instead of hiding behind rational worthy of young children

Replace "minutes" with "a second" - literally.

And what makes you think I watch them all?

I have 11GB of unwatched movies, some of them have been there for many, many months.

I'll peak at them when completely bored, and that's it.

I would never, ever, pay for these movies in any way.

Most of them are more obscure movies that I wouldn't know how to pay for anyway, like Drift, Summer Blues, Totally Confused, Breaking the Cycle, etc.

[Ming]

It doesn't change the fact that your stealing them...
And while I know you have no problem with that, all your lame excuses don't make it right. It's funny to listen to all the rational... but in the end, it's theft.

To each their own... but don't try to justify it
You want it... you take it... even if you don't like it

[Asher]

Again.

Who am I stealing from?

How does this affect them?

To be stealing it requires two parties, one gaining and one losing.

[Ming]

It's theft... pure an simple.. all your silly arguments don't change the facts.

You are stealing the movies for your own viewing. You don't have permission to take them for nothing. It's theft. The creator doesn't get anything, but you get his work... THEFT!

[Dinner]

Originally posted by JohnT
Because the very people who would DL other movies felt that they "owed" Peter Jackson something for making the films, while somehow disregarding the fact that they "owe" other people for making other films.

I don't think most people felt they owed Peter anything. Instead its that most people want to support good cinema and they don't want to pay $39.95 on a bad film so many people watch it once on a net version and go back and buy a real copy if they like the film. I know lots of people, myself included, who do this with both DVDs and CDs. I really don't feel Time-Warner can complain since I spend a good $1000 per year on Movies and Music.

Also according to the Rolling Stone figures the label is getting $4.61 (about 1/3 of the price of a CD) out of $15.99. The company's overhead is its problem not mine and I don't worry about GM's overhead when I buy a car but instead simply look at price and specifications along with design. The retailer is getting $4.69 (again about 1/3) while fixed expenses (manufacturing costs, distribution costs, etc) are $2.52 and optional costs (union payments, marketing, etc) take up $2.57.

The only payment which is lower then the manufacturing costs is the amount they actually pay the artist. The artist gets a tiny $1.60 plus the label and the Union tack on a bunch more fees so they normally see only about 1/3 to 1/4 of the that $1.60. Notice how this doesn't deal with other revenue sources which are equally, if not more, profitable for the companies in question. Music videos (per play royalties, product tie ins, etc), concert money, radio royalties for each song played, and merchendice sales (t-shirts, posters, what not).

Your average downloader, even if he doesn't end up buying the CD (I end up buying around 1/4 of what I download and I'm likely average), still contributes to those other revenue streams. Likely, easier access to music would create a larger fan base and that would mean more money from Radio, video, concerts, and merchandice sales. In short, cry me a river and screw them because I don't care. They're still doing just fine and it is just so sad that the middle man is now making slightly less money.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by JohnT
I'm still trying to figure out why the placement of a few ads and $6.50 ticket prices gives you the right to steal movies.

Help me, I'm lost here...

Average ticket price is around $10.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Oerdin
They're still doing just fine and it is just so sad that the middle man is now making slightly less money.

Everybody involved makes less money... not just the middle man.

I have no problem if people feel it's their right to cheat others out of money by stealing what they have created... it's the justifications that are laughable...
It's still theft. Just because you can steal it easily, and with little fear of getting caught doesn't make it legal or right.

But if people need to make themselves feel better about themselves by creating silly justifications... that's their deal... it doesn't change the facts

[KrazyHorse]

Intellectual property is a relatively recent idea, Ming.

Not all of us "buy" it.