Whoi knew a bunch of Japanese textbook could cause such trouble?

[Ned]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Maybe you missed the part about the CCP wanting to stay in power. Free elections aren't a good way for a one party state to monopolize power.

Oerdin, maybe. But right now, the CCP is popular. It will become unpopular if and when they begin again to crack down on freedom of speech. Then, not only will they not win an election if called, they will be overthrown and banned as the party was in Russia.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Oerdin


People power only works against regimes who are afraid to kill masses of people. The CCP is willing to kill thousands, even millions, to stay in power. People power is useless against them unless the people are armed.

Really?

I think the current people in power are not as wildly insane as Mao.

[Ned]

And not only that, I sincerely doubt the army would be willing to kill their own people. They know if they try, the troops will muntiny.

I think these anti-Japanese protests will end in democracy just like they did after 1919.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Had you told me that only one decade ago, I'd have agreed with you. But I think things have changed considerably. I mean, have you seen how half-assed (by Mao's or even Deng's standards) they deal with dissent? Exile and jail, but no large-scale massacres anymore.

I seriously don't think they are really able nor really willing to exterminate their population if a revolution happens.

I seem to recall a large scale massacre just 15 years ago. They didn't even bother to stop the TV cameras at first because they wanted everyone to know what happens to "counter revolutionaries".

[Ned]

Originally posted by Oerdin


I seem to recall a large scale massacre just 15 years ago. They didn't even bother to stop the TV cameras at first because they wanted everyone to know what happens to "counter revolutionaries".

I was under the impression that Chinese TV did not broadcast the attack.

But, even so, I am with Spiffor. The farther Mao and his criminal crew are in the past, the greater the likelihood for democracy.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Oerdin
I seem to recall a large scale massacre just 15 years ago. They didn't even bother to stop the TV cameras at first because they wanted everyone to know what happens to "counter revolutionaries".

Err, yes it was my frame of reference. I think things have largely changed since then.

[Dinner]

Ned, local news didn't play it after the first intial broadcasts but they didn't kick out the foreign journalists until after much of the intial massacre had been filmed.

[Ned]

Oerdin, however I half recall that CNN was saying that the Chinese people were not seeing what was going on. That is more important that allowing the rest of the world to see.

[Alexander's Horse]

An Australian cartoonist's view of Chinese government hypocrisy.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Maybe you missed the part about the CCP wanting to stay in power. Free elections aren't a good way for a one party state to monopolize power.

Try Singapore.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Koizumi must know that nothing he can say or do will ever placate the Chinese.

That's so wrong you can't even be more wrong.

Barring all cabinet members and politicans to worship war criminals is a good start.

[Drake Tungsten]

The CCP's tactic of whipping mobs into a nationalist frenzy isn't just confined to the Japanese.

I never said it was. "Xenophobic nationalism" affects more than just the Japanese.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Oerdin
It looks like UR is pwned again.

I reckon a strawman is easy to own, even by people who are completely ignorant of Chinese history, culture, and just about everything.

Originally posted by Oerdin
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...nt/4473415.stm

That man is such an authority. For starters, I would say Mr John King Fairbank would disagree with him on the Great Leap Forward.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
That man is such an authority. For starters, I would say Mr John King Fairbank would disagree with him on the Great Leap Forward.

1) We've already discussed the deciet and propaganda in Chinese textbooks, including testimony of Chinese history teachers lamenting the mistruths they are forced to teach. You're response was to deny that an institute mentioned ever existed. I provided clear indisputable evidence of its existence, you responded by conceding that it did exist but that it was disbanded before 2000. I then demonstrated clearly that you were wrong and that it still exists, and you never responded. I'm still wondering why you were so adamantly fighting so hard for something that was either a blatant lie or was something you didn't know enough about to make such ridiculous claims. Hence my doubt on most of the so called 'facts' and assumptions you post.

2) You seem to call upon Fairbank a lot, but don't provide any citations from him to prove your points.

3) One man's book is not the end all of Chinese history, just as one Japanese book isn't for their history.

4) Your response here is a blatant strawman. Fairbank has nothing to do with the discussion in question. Or at least, not in the manner you are invoking him.

Please feel free to respond with one blithe line for each point.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Err, yes it was my frame of reference. I think things have largely changed since then.

Economically, yes. Politically, no. In fact, I'd say it's a bit worse.