Whoi knew a bunch of Japanese textbook could cause such trouble?

[Az]

I don't see this fetus of fascism falling apart in any favorable way, anyhow.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Az
I don't see this fetus of fascism falling apart in any favorable way, anyhow.

Do you mean the CCP or the protests?

[Drake Tungsten]

If the monster looks anything like the protests of today, you aren't going to like it, ya know.

The monster was created by the CCP and isn't going to be rehabilitated while they're still around. Unfortunately, it looks like things are going to have to get worse before they can get better.

[Az]

I mean the PRC, in general. Unless it takes a turn for the better, we're going to see the rise of something very intimidating. VERY intimidating.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
The monster was created by the CCP and isn't going to be rehabilitated while they're still around.

I am not sure of that (this sentence is to be taken literally, it does not mean "you're completely wrong you idiot" )

The CCP boys are only interested in keeping their power. and they know that their regime is too weak to survive a widespread revolution/uprising.
There was a time where the Chinese regime found loyalty by force-feeding an ideology, and ruthlessly massacre anybody who disagreed. This time forunately belongs to the past, as the CCP has considerably mellowed out, and you can't really prop up the communist ideology when you are a blatant capitalist regime.
As such, the CCP's new form of keeping the people content is threefold: 1) feed them with economic growth, so that they're content with the outputs of the regime.
2) Keep them as apthetic toward the regime as possible, by isolating/offing activists, and letting no communication channel free of giving new ideas. OTOH, let them be obsessed about buying the latest cell phone.
3) Channel their discontent toward an enemy that is not the regime. The Japanese make a fantastic target. Look like the one party that cares for the glorious Chinese nation.

I think the CCP boys love #3 because they know growth won't be eternal, and many Chinese people will begin to question the party when it happens. #2 won't be enough to prevent the spread of discontent, since the general population will be more prone to want a political change (such is the enemy of political apathy). #3 may well save their arse.
Such a reasoning would indicate that the CCP will continue to promote protests unabated. However, they may understand the dangers that come from it, and that they'd benefit from using another strategy.

Indeed, the CCP's greatest hope is continued apathy from the general population. If the population becomes too active (like during protests), the regime might be destroyed as soon as the protesters turn against it. And unless the CCP is completely incompetent, it knows it can and will happen.
I think a much smarter strategy, for the CCP, would be to force other countries/negociate them into doing something symbolic that pleases Chinese nationalism. Meanwhile, the Chinese people are merely spectators of this, instead of taking an active part to it. This way, the Chinese won't take the habit of opening their mouth (a very bad thing as far as dictatorship is concerned), and the CCP would still benefit from its nationalistic demagogery.

I think the CCP has propped up the protests to scare the Japanese into submission. It has paid off on the short run, but it's really bad news for them on the long run.

[Drake Tungsten]

I think the CCP has propped up the protests to scare the Japanese into submission. It has paid off on the short run, but it's really bad news for them on the long run.

I agree...

The "monster" I was talking about was the xenophobic nationalism that has been instilled in the youth of China by the current government. I don't see the CCP changing course on its anti-Japan rhetoric, for the reasons you mentioned, which is why I think the current regime will have to fall before the nationalist cancer afflicting China can be addressed.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Spiffor
As such, the CCP's new form of keeping the people content is threefold: 1) feed them with economic growth, so that they're content with the outputs of the regime.
2) Keep them as apthetic toward the regime as possible, by isolating/offing activists, and letting no communication channel free of giving new ideas. OTOH, let them be obsessed about buying the latest cell phone.
3) Channel their discontent toward an enemy that is not the regime. The Japanese make a fantastic target. Look like the one party that cares for the glorious Chinese nation.

I think the CCP boys love #3 because they know growth won't be eternal, and many Chinese people will begin to question the party when it happens. #2 won't be enough to prevent the spread of discontent, since the general population will be more prone to want a political change (such is the enemy of political apathy). #3 may well save their arse.
Such a reasoning would indicate that the CCP will continue to promote protests unabated. However, they may understand the dangers that come from it, and that they'd benefit from using another strategy.

Indeed, the CCP's greatest hope is continued apathy from the general population. If the population becomes too active (like during protests), the regime might be destroyed as soon as the protesters turn against it. And unless the CCP is completely incompetent, it knows it can and will happen.
I think a much smarter strategy, for the CCP, would be to force other countries/negociate them into doing something symbolic that pleases Chinese nationalism. Meanwhile, the Chinese people are merely spectators of this, instead of taking an active part to it. This way, the Chinese won't take the habit of opening their mouth (a very bad thing as far as dictatorship is concerned), and the CCP would still benefit from its nationalistic demagogery.

I think the CCP has propped up the protests to scare the Japanese into submission. It has paid off on the short run, but it's really bad news for them on the long run.

I agree. If the Japanese were really smart and willing to be realistic they would issue the blanket, sweeping mea culpa for the asian part of WW2 that their asian neighbors have been demanding for a long time and they would be more sensitive to their fellow asian's needs about what they allow to be published about WW2 in Japan. The Japanese should initiate some joint ventures with the Chinese in order to strengthen the bonds between the two countries and make using "#3" a less palatable political strategy for the CCP.

[Sandman]

If the Chinese were really smart, they'd let Taiwan have its independence - thus pulling the rug out from under the feet of the alarmist Americans, and settle for economic supremacy of the region.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Spiffor


I'm actually surprised that the Chinese government didn't jump on the opportunity to silence the protests. By continuing to promote them, the CCP is really feeding the monster that will be its end

Exactly the point I have been making. The last time this happened, in 1919, the result was a revolution in favor of democracy.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

I think the CCP has propped up the protests to scare the Japanese into submission. It has paid off on the short run, but it's really bad news for them on the long run.

I agree...

The "monster" I was talking about was the xenophobic nationalism that has been instilled in the youth of China by the current government. I don't see the CCP changing course on its anti-Japan rhetoric, for the reasons you mentioned, which is why I think the current regime will have to fall before the nationalist cancer afflicting China can be addressed.

The fall of the CCP will do nothing to affect anti-Japanese feelings. What may do it, though, is reunion with Taiwan. The native peoples still remember the relatively good rule of the Japanese.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Sandman
If the Chinese were really smart, they'd let Taiwan have its independence - thus pulling the rug out from under the feet of the alarmist Americans, and settle for economic supremacy of the region.

If the CCP was really smart, it would allow free elections.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
The "monster" I was talking about was the xenophobic nationalism that has been instilled in the youth of China by the current government. I don't see the CCP changing course on its anti-Japan rhetoric, for the reasons you mentioned, which is why I think the current regime will have to fall before the nationalist cancer afflicting China can be addressed.

The CCP's tactic of whipping mobs into a nationalist frenzy isn't just confined to the Japanese. Do you remember how the CCP did the exact same thing during the Spy plane incident? The US plane was in international air space and the Chinese pilots tried to play chicken to scare the Americans off. Usually they'd pull up at the last minute while the larger American plane would just keep flying straight only that time the Chinese fighter didn't pull up in time and that caused the two planes to collide. The CCP, predictable as always, arranged for mobs to throw rocks at the US embassy and said they wanted the US (!!!!) to apologize for the crash.

Similiar tactics were used during the Kosovo war and the Soviet/Chinese border war in the early 80's and the Chinese/Vietnamese border war of the late 70's, etc... It is a standard tactic of the Chinese communist party and is nothing new.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Ned

If the CCP was really smart, it would allow free elections.

Maybe you missed the part about the CCP wanting to stay in power. Free elections aren't a good way for a one party state to monopolize power.

[Dinner]

Indeed, the CCP's greatest hope is continued apathy from the general population. If the population becomes too active (like during protests), the regime might be destroyed as soon as the protesters turn against it. And unless the CCP is completely incompetent, it knows it can and will happen.

People power only works against regimes who are afraid to kill masses of people. The CCP is willing to kill thousands, even millions, to stay in power. People power is useless against them unless the people are armed.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Oerdin
The CCP is willing to kill thousands, even millions, to stay in power. People power is useless against them unless the people are armed.

Had you told me that only one decade ago, I'd have agreed with you. But I think things have changed considerably. I mean, have you seen how half-assed (by Mao's or even Deng's standards) they deal with dissent? Exile and jail, but no large-scale massacres anymore.

I seriously don't think they are really able nor really willing to exterminate their population if a revolution happens.