The equal strengths of Star Wars and Star Trek

[Brent]

I think the point is that Star Wars combines many cliches in an original way.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by GePap
And obviously I utterly disagree with that definition- under that definition then Science Fiction is a subcategory of Fantasy.

Why yes, yes it is

[Imran Siddiqui]

The question should by why it would NOT be, given what magic is.

Here is your preconcieved notions of magic. Why can't someone create a flawed magic? Magic which is not perfect. Magic which may not work perfectly. Simply because everyone has written about perfect magic doesn't end the discussion on magic. Stop boxing yourself in.

So, underlying the whole story is NOT just having foreknowledge of the future, its about trying to manipulate history using a theory of history and then finding that inconvinient new data comes up forcing rethinks and new goals. Magical revelation is a very different thing and the theme would have to change significantly.

No it wouldn't. You could try to manipulate the future using a magical revealed future, which is only based on the facts as the society knows them, and then later finding inconveinient facts come up which render the magical prediction flawed.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Actually, it's a bit more complicated than that. There are a range of powers granted by the Force that go well beyond telepathy (telekenises, for example).

But the Force is essentially magical, yes. Then again, so was Q.

what I mean is that there is the same level of scientific evidence for the Force as there is for Telepathy

Jon miller

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

"Rogue" turning good = cliche
Lowly farm boy (or what have you) becomes legendary hero = cliche
Evil bad guy all in black - cliche
Princess in distress = cliche
Mystical old man mentor = cliche

I'll give you princess in distress. Mystical old mentor is part of the chosen one cliche. But rogue turning good? Where was the cliche in that? Even today that isn't done that often. There is rough character with the heart of gold, but not the ******* who gets redeemed at the end. Make no mistake, Han was an ******* in ANH until the end. In many action movies today a character like Han gets killed by the bad guys.

too be fair, this mgiht not be the case for the special addition

Jon Miller
(Greedo shooting first...)

[Imran Siddiqui]

I actually think that is the reason there were SUCH an outcry over the Special Edition. Many people said that the small (tiny) change ruined Han's character for them. I mean, it was a very small change, but for a lot of SW fans, Han shooting first established his amoral-ness.

[Jon Miller]

yeah.. I hated it also

I want to buy an edition that has Greedo shooting first..

Jon Miller

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
[ But rogue turning good? Where was the cliche in that? Even today that isn't done that often. There is rough character with the heart of gold, but not the ******* who gets redeemed at the end. Make no mistake, Han was an ******* in ANH until the end. In many action movies today a character like Han gets killed by the bad guys.
Which one is it?

Tale of Two Cities? Les Miserables? Clint Eastwood's Spaghetti western series? Pulp Fiction?

[Barinthus]

Originally posted by Ted Striker



What exactly is going on in that photo?

Mmm I found that picture at this url http://www.cinemotoreonline.net/startrek.html

I can't read it - I believe it's in Italian. It looks like it was at an opening for that Nemesis movie although.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Tale of Two Cities? Les Miserables? Clint Eastwood's Spaghetti western series? Pulp Fiction?

Never read Tale of Two Cities. Les Miserables had the rogue only bad ONCE in stealing for the priest. He was thrown in jail for stealing a loaf of bread and then stole from the priest and was redeemed and for the rest of the book (which was 90% of it) was a good guy. Clint Eastwood spagetti westerns?! Those all involved a rogue with a heart of gold since the beginning... he's cleaning out the town in FOD, and is stopping the bad guy in FFDM, and is "Good" in GB&U. Pulp Fiction? The main character is seen as good (or at least cool and sympathtic) since the beginning.

Han was as an ass until the end when he thought about something except himself for once.

[Tassadar500]

I liked Les Miserables.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Brent
No weapon on the scale of the Deathstar would make sense in a planetbound fantasy world. It destroys entire planets.

Somebody else could make a bigger weapon that destroys entire star systems. Who cares? It's not the point. It's just like a dragon on a planet, something big and horrible and nasty and can do lots of damage.

Originally posted by Brent
Who says there's not theory in magic?

If magic can be theorised and studied like electromagnetism, it ceases to be magic.

[Imran Siddiqui]

If magic can be theorised and studied like electromagnetism, it ceases to be magic.

No it doesn't... actually that would be very interesting to have a story involving some study of magic (in order to find out how to create greater spells or some such).

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I'll give you princess in distress. Mystical old mentor is part of the chosen one cliche. But rogue turning good? Where was the cliche in that? Even today that isn't done that often. There is rough character with the heart of gold, but not the ******* who gets redeemed at the end. Make no mistake, Han was an ******* in ANH until the end. In many action movies today a character like Han gets killed by the bad guys.

Com'on, you are just nitpicking. You have conceded that Star Wars is just repackaged fairytale already.

[Imran Siddiqui]

You have conceded that Star Wars is just repackaged fairytale already.

As is any science fiction, seeing as it is a subset of fantasy. Look at Babylon 5 or Buck Rogers or even Star Trek. What makes it sci-fi is the space travel or use of the future or future technology in some way.