MLB: Opening Day!

[asleepathewheel]

strikeouts are overrated as a negative stat.

rather a strikeout than a weakly hit doubleplay grounder.

rather a minimum 3 pitch at bat than a first pitch flyout.

Bad yes, but its a mistake to always consider a strikeout an uproductive at bat. Work the pitch count.

Especially if they have a high slugg%, ie Adam dunn. I'd take his strikeouts in a heartbeat for his power.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

You said it's cheating because it is illegal, you keep saying that. And what if it does give the player an edge? What if he thinks it does and in his brain it makes him play better?

for the second time, who cares what the player thinks. if he thinks wrong, hes still wrong.

Yes... but how does 'better position than before' = 'unfair advantage'? It doesn't. Cheating is breaking the rules and that's it.

because you get that better position than before by giving yourself an unfair advantage by cheating. illegal in the US + gives you a performance boost = cheating.

[Ming]

I have to go along with Imran...

Cheating is breaking the RULES of the GAME

Until baseball took the step to actually make steroids and other body building drugs illegal OFFICIALLY in the rules of baseball... you can't consider any that used them prior to that cheaters. You can claim they broke the laws of the United States... but they did not cheat. Baseball has themselves to blame... by not specifically having a rule against them... they condoned their use.

[Winston]

That seems like a weak argument to me, Ming. Do they have a specific rule prohibiting a player from killing an opponent who's on a roll scoring points in a game? I'm not saying the two offenses are comparable, but just because you don't have a specific rule against some practice, it doesn't automatically follow you aren't cheating. Another example would be having someone phone in a bomb threat causing the stadium to be evacuated because your team is losing. I'm sure there's no specific baseball rule against that either, but it'd still be cheating.

[Ming]

How can you break a rule when there is no rule.

EVERY OTHER major sport had a rules against their use. Baseball continued to "look the other way" and didn't actually put a rule in place until it was pretty much crammed down their throat. How can it be cheating when the owners allowed it?

[Lawrence of Arabia]

yeah winston, you made some goods points there.

[Ming]

While Winston provides a different perspective... look at this way... The owners didn't encourage people to call in bomb threats... and if a player tried or actually killed somebody, there are rules against that and HAVE been enforced by MLB. By not having a rule, and not testing for it, while EVERY MAJOR SPORTS LEAGUE OR FEDERATION was, they were telling their players that they didn't care. While some may find it wrong, the players weren't cheating.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

how does that refute what winston said?

[Ming]

How does what winston say refute what I said...

The situations he points out are TOTALLY different than the situation being discussed.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

winston doesnt need to refute what you said, since he refuted what imran said. it goes in order. now its your turn to refute.

[Shi Huangdi]

I think there are rules against striking another player. If anything, killing would be against the rules as Unsportsmanlike Conduct.

I don't think you can say that because something is illegal, that it makes it cheating. Say Imran were playing a game "Who Can Smoke the most Pot?" Would it be right to say we are both cheating?

Anyway, Washington is now First in War, First in Peace, and First in the NL East!

The Nats just completes a sweep over the Marlins with the Marlins having their Ace on the mound. It being this late in the season, I don't think you can just say the Nats are overachieving.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

I don't think you can say that because something is illegal, that it makes it cheating. Say Imran were playing a game "Who Can Smoke the most Pot?" Would it be right to say we are both cheating?

only if you found an illegal way to smoke more then imran and thus gain an unfair advantage.

[Shi Huangdi]

"
only if you found an illegal way to smoke more then imran and thus gain an unfair advantage."

But smoking is already illegal.

Games can include legal and illegeal activity, and you can't say it is cheating just because it is illegal.

[asleepathewheel]

Not to mention that this is an international game, with 81 games played out of the US per year. US laws, Canadian laws, NAFTA, UN, Geneva, what should apply?

[Winston]

It's not a question of what laws should apply, but whether something goes against the spirit of sportsmanship. Just because an act isn't specifically mentioned in the official baseball rules, it doesn't mean it's not cheating.

A player stripping butt-naked during a football game, leaving his opponents and fellow players equally baffled, snatching the ball and scoring in an empty net - may not be against any specific football rule, but it's still cheating because it's un-sportsmanlike.

No matter how much the crowds will be cheering.