Xbox being pulled from the marketplace, production halted...

[Asher]

Originally posted by DanS
What are the XBox 2s going to be selling for out of the gate? Also, 1 million units for the holidays seems rather paltry.

The 1 million units is apparently for Europe alone, according to other articles.

Don't know the pricing. Some say PS3 and Xbox2 may be $399.

Sony tossed around the idea of $499...

It probably would be $499 without MS competing...

[DanS]

$399 and $499 are way too much, IMO. They should have done a $299 or $250 price to steal a march on Sony.

The key is to get as many of the machines out there as soon as possible, not to dicker over price with early adopters.

[Asher]

Originally posted by DanS
$399 and $499 are way too much, IMO. They should have done a $299 or $250 price to steal a march on Sony.

People said $299 was way too much as well.

What exactly do you know about the console market?

Nintendo tried your brilliant strategy, it failed miserably. Gamers equate cheaper to...cheaper. Sub-par. It is in MS' best interest to pricematch Sony to position themselves as a direct competitor, and an alternative.

[DanS]

Well, if you don't use that strategy, you have a huge hole in your product lineup at around $150.

[Asher]

Originally posted by DanS
Well, if you don't use that strategy, you have a huge hole in your product lineup at around $150.

That's where the "crippled" Xbox2 will come in, without the harddrive, backwards compatibility, etc.

[Dis]

as always, I ask: can it play games? Oh wait, it can.

But can it play games as good as PC games?

[Asher]

When it comes out, I anticipate it will own PC games for at least two years.

[Asher]

This is as strong an indicator as any that MS plans at leaast one version of Xbox2 to be backwards-compatible with Xbox. The first was the purchase of VirtualPC software, that emulates x86 on PowerPC...

And now the stop-ship order for new Xboxes, while they still keep planning to release Xbox games and will still likely keep selling them for years to come.

[DanS]

Originally posted by Asher

That's where the "crippled" Xbox2 will come in, without the harddrive, backwards compatibility, etc.

I've never been a fan of that approach. Differentiation within a product line has always seemed to fail in this business.

[Solver]

Consoles will never be as good as PCs. Not for most games. Not until consoles can have real mod capabilities. When games are released that have huge modding potential, why lose all that by being stuck on a console? Many top-of-the-line shooters, like Doom3 or HL2, are extremely moddable, and that's lost on consoles. This year's biggest upcoming RPG, TES IV, will be extremely moddable, and that will be lost, too. What's the purpose of running those games on a console then?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Solver
Consoles will never be as good as PCs. Not for most games. Not until consoles can have real mod capabilities. When games are released that have huge modding potential, why lose all that by being stuck on a console? Many top-of-the-line shooters, like Doom3 or HL2, are extremely moddable, and that's lost on consoles. This year's biggest upcoming RPG, TES IV, will be extremely moddable, and that will be lost, too. What's the purpose of running those games on a console then?

Most games don't give a sh*t about user-created mods, and I'm one of them.

The good ones will break off into games on their own.

I've never, ever, downloaded a DOOM3 mod or HL2 mod.

PC gaming is on the rapid decline, console gaming is always on the up.

It's time to realize most people just don't game like you do.

Consoles are "better" at gaming than PCs because:
1) You can "write to the metal", far more efficient code
2) Standardized platform
3) Static hardware for 4-5 years means saved money...

[Solver]

Originally posted by Asher

Most games don't give a sh*t about user-created mods, and I'm one of them.

The good ones will break off into games on their own.

I've never, ever, downloaded a DOOM3 mod or HL2 mod.

PC gaming is on the rapid decline, console gaming is always on the up.

It's time to realize most people just don't game like you do.

Consoles are "better" at gaming than PCs because:
1) You can "write to the metal", far more efficient code
2) Standardized platform
3) Static hardware for 4-5 years means saved money...

Need I mention Counterstrike? It's a user-created mod, and is one of the most popular games ever. I know that many XBOX players of Morrowind regret that, because there are mods that give much more replayability/playtime to the game. Essentialy, you buy the game, and get all the quests/cities/feautures for free that come later from mods. I've not downloaded any HL2 mods yet either, but I've played a custom D3 map shortly after release of D3, and it gave me an hour of enjoyment. That I wouldn't get on the XBOX.

That saved money argument is a fun one... the XBOX itself costs. If I buy a new computer, I am pretty assured that all games releases in the next 2 years will run very well. Alright, I assume XBOX is better for people who want many games, and often the newest ones, right?

[Japher]

Consoles are "better" at gaming than PCs because:
1) You can "write to the metal", far more efficient code
2) Standardized platform
3) Static hardware for 4-5 years means saved money...

Consoles may be better for "gaming" for those reasons, but they aren't better for games for those exact reasons.

On a console games are only allowed to evolve as much as the origional programmers allow and as much as the original hardware allow. 5 year old hardware and source code being overhauled by the same old programmers to make Splinter Cell 8, which really just a mod, but we won't call it that.

The gaming fans, the mods, etc. permit for the creativity that allows for the evolution of games. Their mods and additions, while free, and sometime bug ridden are awesome in that they give developer ideas for the next version of the game, not just the next remake.

These same fans and mod makers also do so with evolving technology platforms, pushing the envolope of the hardware to software (and back) exchange. Do games lead the evolution of memory allocation, hardware design, etc...? Probably not, but it's fun to consider that we tend to put a lot of thought into AI, maybe more so than certain Toyota Robot builders.

If you are happy with static run of the mill games that never change only gain new graphics, fresh faces, and "2005" added to the same title from last year than by all means stick with your console. I prefer games that "evolve" and mature with the fans and players of that game. I for one have never downloaded a mod, and while I find Sn00py's graphics much better for civ3, I still haven't downloaded it. However I have much respect for those who go to lengths to change the look of a game, create more units and maps, and scenerios... It is these people who push the programmers of the games, and give testers more things to consider than just a bug free game (which has never been made, IMO).

Anyway, that's my 2-cents.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Solver
Need I mention Counterstrike?

This game?



I rest my case.

[Solver]

Out of curiosity, how long did it take for CS to come out for the XBOX? Outstanding mod, being sold separately in so many ways. But my point stands that CS is excellent proof that gamers do care about mods.