Biggest Mistakes the Axis made iyo.

[MRT144]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


I'm not Boris.

well you should be che

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Ala Franco.

Hmmm. More or less, thats the idea. Except Franco didnt do for Spains international position what pre-39 hitler did for germanys - Franco was lucky the cold war broke war out before anyone dealt with him.

[Admiral]

From a strategic perspective, Hitler's drive, dedication, and long term vision were what allowed Germany to dominate mainland Europe until the fall of France. At that point, Hitler became a liability, continuously overruling his generals (who were ****ing brilliant, in general), and having no sort of strategic plan other than "everywhere we invade we will meet with unparalleled success."
Therefore, the biggest mistake the Axis made was not killing Hitler in 1940 and installing a military junta in charge of the country, somewhat similar to what was planned in '44. Italy might have objected, but Germany could have withheld support for North Africa and the Balkans, forcing Italy to go along.

[chequita guevara]

Speaking of Hitler
http://www.goats.com/archive/050314.html and then keep hitting next for a while.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Admiral
From a strategic perspective, Hitler's drive, dedication, and long term vision were what allowed Germany to dominate mainland Europe until the fall of France. At that point, Hitler became a liability, continuously overruling his generals (who were ****ing brilliant, in general), and having no sort of strategic plan other than "everywhere we invade we will meet with unparalleled success."
Therefore, the biggest mistake the Axis made was not killing Hitler in 1940 and installing a military junta in charge of the country, somewhat similar to what was planned in '44. Italy might have objected, but Germany could have withheld support for North Africa and the Balkans, forcing Italy to go along.

POD - Canaris succeeds in having Hitler killed in summer of 1940, and say, a Prussian junta takes over. Assume the residual Nazis go quietly. What do the Prussians do now? Offer peace to UK, of course, but what will they offer that UK will accept? And assuming they do get a truce of sorts, how long will Stalin stay at peace? They still havent escaped Germanys strategic dilemma.

[Admiral]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


POD - Canaris succeeds in having Hitler killed in summer of 1940, and say, a Prussian junta takes over. Assume the residual Nazis go quietly. What do the Prussians do now? Offer peace to UK, of course, but what will they offer that UK will accept? And assuming they do get a truce of sorts, how long will Stalin stay at peace? They still havent escaped Germanys strategic dilemma.

The underlying fact is that in under no circumstances could Germany have taken over the world. It's just not going to happen.
However, even if Germany still attacks Russia, without Hitler, they take Moscow, probably take Leningrad, they have a much more coherent winter defensive strategy. Hence, they start 1942 on a much better footing, which they could have used to threaten Murmansk and Archangelsk, and severely hurt the allies abilities to support the Soviet war effort. This probably wouldn't have been enough to knock the USSR out of the war, but it would have put Germany in a much better position to counter any allied incursions into Europe (at least, ones in France. The Allied invasion of Italy was pointless).
If the Normandy, or Normandy equivalent in this timeline fails, that may have turned public opinion against the war in the US, which would guarantee German dominance of Europe. However, if the war continues, nuclear weapons would have been used on Germany without any real risk to the pacific theatre, and the allies would still win the war.

Ladies love the Hitler.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Admiral

. The Allied invasion of Italy was pointless).

The invasion of Italy tied down considerable numbers of German troops at a time when the allies couldnt land in France yet. It also pulled all the Italian troops out the USSR. It provided air bases that could reach places that couldnt easily be reached from UK, like the Romanian oil fields. And it provided a base for an invasion of southern France.

[Dis]

their mistake was existing in the first place. They had no chance of succeeding. ever...

[St Leo]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
They were never together. The USSR simply took advantage of the Nazi invasion of Poland to reaquire territory Poland had stolen from them 19 years earlier.

Oh, geez. Stolen.

Next you'll tell me that Germany stole Alsace-Lorraine from France in the Franco-Prussian War.

IMHO, the moral claim was about equal in both cases.

[Zkribbler]

biggest mistakes:

1) Invading Russia too late in the year and with no winter uniforms.

2) Redrecting the bombing attacks away from the RAF when it was just about finished and to Britain's cities.

3) Terrorizing the Ukrainian and other Soviet peoples, turning people who had been cheering their "liberators" into blood-thirsty partisans.

4) Failing to crush the Brits at Dunkirk.

5) Trusting that the Ultra cypher couldn't be broken.

6) Using "Garbo" as the chief source of intelligence in Britain.


I don't see the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor as a mistake. The Japanese needed to break the U.S. strategic-reasources embargo, and destroying the U.S. Navy was a way to go about that. However, the way they did it -- a sneak attack-- galvanized the U.S. people, and that was the mistake.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
However, the way they did it -- a sneak attack-- galvanized the U.S. people, and that was the mistake.

If they didn't, the IJN might well be destroyed earlier.

[Ned]

Since the US was critical to Germany's defeat, their policy should have been to do everything to keep America out of the war. There are numerous mistakes Germany made that brought the US into the war. Foremost among them was their alliance with Japan.

[Dis]

The Allies would have won without U.S. support. it would have taken alot longer though.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by DanS
The two biggest mistakes were (1) declaring war on the US; and (2) Germany's attack through South Russia at Stalingrad.

FDR would not have been able to put the US on a war footing absent a declaration of war.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Dissident
The Allies would have won without U.S. support. it would have taken alot longer though.

You'll get a very strong debate on that issue from multiple sources. Lend Lease was critical to the support of both Britain an Russia. Without that support, both would have folded.