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  • #61
    DanS - we are not talking about an honest airing of facts. We are talking indoctrination. Read the second link, and then start googling the moth experiment. The lies about the flaws about it have been repeated so many times that they are now being accepted as fact.

    If it were simply a debate, that is fine. But it is what we put in the textbooks children read. They do NOT have the requisite judgement to sort these issues out, that is the job of adults. The fact is that some of the embryology issues the Creative Design people are quoting consist of very obsolete research, often a century old!. Shameful. But that does not mean that modern embryology, with genetic markers, DNA, etc. is disproved, it's the old straw man technique.

    Let's put it in the matter of social studies. Let's put the Al Jezira's spin on history and current events into our Junior High Schools. What - we cannot do that, it is propoganda. Exactly my point. The Creative Design people deliberately go out of their way to find straw men, i.e. obsolete science, and use that to cast doubt on an entire field. If you think this is a problem - look at the polls and American hideous lack of Scientific Knowledge. Why do you think we are importing people from all over the world instead of creating our own homegrown experts. That is one reason of a very complex set of circumstances.

    Mississippi does count - and how do your schools stack up? The prosecution rests.
    The worst form of insubordination is being right - Keith D., marine veteran. A dictator will starve to the last civilian - self-quoted
    And on the eigth day, God realized it was Monday, and created caffeine. And behold, it was very good. - self-quoted
    Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it.
    Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I'm very sorry… I wish it were otherwise.

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    • #62
      We never went over Creationism in biology class.
      I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
      For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
        Why are science magazines so political and defensive nowadays? It's not just Scientific American; I've noticed the same thing with Discover and National Geographic. How many more defenses of evolution am I going to have to slog through to get to something interesting?
        Basically the forces of darkness have massed and are continuing their assualt on all things scientific and/or educational. Thus those people who would like to advance science and improve public education are forced to strike back with articles based upon sound science.
        Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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        • #64
          Likewise, it was only given a passing mention. I'd be annoyed if it was ever taught in British schools as a rational theory, and if I were a biology teacher would point blank refuse to teach it as a rational theory.
          Speaking of Erith:

          "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

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          • #65
            Do they have Bible classes in your local Public Schools? I know they did in certain areas, I have a coworker who lived in Mississippi until 10 years ago and her district did. I also saw the same thing in West Viriginia.
            Then take that in the context of Che's post.
            The worst form of insubordination is being right - Keith D., marine veteran. A dictator will starve to the last civilian - self-quoted
            And on the eigth day, God realized it was Monday, and created caffeine. And behold, it was very good. - self-quoted
            Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it.
            Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I'm very sorry… I wish it were otherwise.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Patroklos

              You are all operating on faith.
              The only assumption in science is that the Universe is an objective entity that can be studied (as opposed to some crazy philosophers who think the universe is an illusion...). Anyone who thinks scientists operate on faith does not know what science is.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by DinoDoc
                We never went over Creationism in biology class.
                but there are zealots out there who want to. and thats wrong.
                "I hope I get to punch you in the face one day" - MRT144, Imran Siddiqui
                'I'm fairly certain that a ban on me punching you in the face is not a "right" worth respecting." - loinburger

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by shawnmmcc
                  Do they have Bible classes in your local Public Schools?
                  I never saw them. That doesn't mean they don't exist though.
                  I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                  For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    We had a Bible as literature class in my highschool, which included, maong other things, modern retellings of the story. Jesus Christ Superstar was supposed to have been taught, but the year I was finally going to be allowed to take it, the teacher decided to cut it out, because it was blasphemous.
                    Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by DinoDoc
                      We never went over Creationism in biology class.
                      Good because creationism has nothing to do with biology or science so it doesn't belong in a biology or a science class. Go to a religious Sunday school if you want to learn religious beliefs.
                      Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        i had a bible as literature class too. it was pretty interesting. bot not once did i ever feel like it was indoctrination and at the time i was a staunch athiest and was pissed about the whole thing. looking back now i can see the merit of the class.

                        on the other hand i am far more religious today, am christian (albiet not the best one) and trying to put creationism in line with evolution in teaching is nuts. even intelligent design is an attempt to work god back into purely scientific realms.
                        "I hope I get to punch you in the face one day" - MRT144, Imran Siddiqui
                        'I'm fairly certain that a ban on me punching you in the face is not a "right" worth respecting." - loinburger

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by MRT144
                          ... attempt to work god back into purely scientific realms.
                          I never had a real problem with including God and science in the same breath. Learning about science always strengthened my faith.
                          I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                          For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by DinoDoc
                            I never had a real problem with including God and science in the same breath. Learning about science always strengthened my faith.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              If we are going by peer review, I am afraid science is very far behind religion. By like the 10s of billions.

                              sorry, just a small, niggling point...

                              behind by tens of billions? most interesting, since there are at most what, 8 billion people tops, in the world? maybe 9 billion since civ started?
                              B♭3

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by DinoDoc
                                I never had a real problem with including God and science in the same breath. Learning about science always strengthened my faith.
                                youve never had any problem? well its nice to know youre the measure we should base all our government decisions on.

                                "well dinodoc doesnt have a problem with nuclear war, so were gonna launch a few nukes at china, to rattle their cage"

                                the thing is dino, youve always been able to make personal decisions for yourself, without guidence about your faith when learning science.

                                now people on the religious right want to make those decisions for us.
                                "I hope I get to punch you in the face one day" - MRT144, Imran Siddiqui
                                'I'm fairly certain that a ban on me punching you in the face is not a "right" worth respecting." - loinburger

                                Comment

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