Sharon:1 Democracy:0

[Dinner]

Originally posted by muxec
Democratic state must rely on referendum in controversial cases!

Me is centrist.

I think we can all agree that modern Germany is a democratic state dispite the constitutional ban on referendums.

[muxec]

I think we can all agree that modern Germany is a democratic

And I think different. Democratic states do not exist in the world.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Oerdin


I think we can all agree that modern Germany is a democratic state dispite the constitutional ban on referendums.

The real problem Oerdin, is not the lack of referendums, but that Israeli govts in recent years have made dramatic changes from their campaign positions wrt the peace process, and done so without calling new elections as a general rule, which is kinda a no-no in a Parliamentary demo. And from the rights POV, the changes are always toward the left - Rabin agreeing to Oslo, Barak making an offer that crossed his red lines, and Sharon offering the Gaza plan. While I see justification for each move, I can also see a valid basis for discontent with the process.

[Az]

BTW, Azazel, do you plan to vote on next parlament elections?

Probably labor.

[Sirotnikov]

With regards to palestinian actions: they are indeed very limited, but nontheless mostly effective. Several threats were indeed thwarted (Even though they were unsignificant) and there are still major problems in the chain of command.

There are two problematic levels here for Israel:

1) Abu Mazen does not want to take on the major terrorist organizations head on, and prefers to politically out maneuver them. He's succeeding so far, but it will eventaully fall unless Israel continues a serious political process after the Gaza pullout and the Palestinian elections.

2) Abu Mazen's (rare) orders to seriously uproot threats to the rule of law or to the safety of the current Tahdia (temporary unbinding cease fire / reduction of intensity) are not well transferred into actions due to problematic chain of command and weak security mechanisms.

[Sirotnikov]

as for my vote - I still support Shinui. I can't say I'm 100% pleased - they did some silly stuff, but there is no alternative.

I'm not going to vote for a corrupt bunch of uneducated monkeys (likud) or a group of anachronistic socialist military man with no political potency or willingness to take bold actions (avoda).

I'm not going to vote for silly lefty loonie socialists (meretz / yahad) or right wing half-religious who are against the Gaza seperation (mafdal).


Shinui isn't all pretty but it is centrist, liberal in economics, liberal in civil rights, and even when it "steals money" it gives it to good causes (education, environment) and not private zombification networks like Shas does.

I think that the government offices under shinui were probably the most effective and best reformed.

[muxec]

Azazel, and why vote for person, who got Nobel Prize in peace WITH Arafat?