Schiavo Thread Part the Third

[alva]

I'd be amazed if she wouldn't get anything, even if no record of it was made.

[Berzerker]

The Dem's have never argued the Federal government should intrude into people's lives.

WhaaAA?

[Dis]

get this. The judge has been kicked out of his church.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Capt Dizle


I object to the use of the word victim. You are trying to skew the matter through wordsmithing.

Not that you are doing a bad job, but it totally undermines your credibility. About the only people you coulld convince with your prejudiced crap would be your fellow back benchers from the Baptist church.

I have to yield to your earlier statement that I don't understand what lawyers do, Ned, clearly you have a much better grasp on the ability of lawyers to twist the truth into an unknowable murk.

I sincerely apologize for using a "loaded" term to describe a person who is deliberately put to death.

Now, have you also heard people use the term "allowed to die?" Isn't this term highly loaded in the other direction?

BTW, I have no idea why you think I am associated with the Baptists. I am an agnostic.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Capt Dizle


Here is where you have to remember that Jeb, George, and the shadowy figures just off stage right, do not want to save Terri, but want this to be as spectactularly emotional as possible so that it will serve well to whip the frenzy of the base.

This is all about Roe v. Wade and is probably one of the more skillful propaganda campaigns I have seen in my lifetime.

I get so irked when folks say, no, the repubs aren't doing that, it would be stupid, look at the poll numbers, the majority is against them.

People are stupid. Propaganda is WHAT YOU USE when the polls do not support your position. Propaganda changes poll numbers and NONE HERE would be so shallow as to argue against the clearly evident fact that the first element of a propaganda campaign has already been achieved; the level of raw emotion surrounding has been raised to such an elevated level that it now precludes rational thinking among the faithful. This right to life mania will now simmer at just below critical mass until Terri's death, at which point many in our society who have been unconcerned and unattached to this debate will be SWEPT UP by the emotional tumult and suddenly and permanently branded by it and then my friends, the churches will overflow and you will look at the polls and you will UNDERSTAND how it was, the methods, that allow the National Socialist to swept into power in Europe between the great wars.

This is a time of gathering darkness in America.

I speak not as a liberal, but as a conservative, born again Christian, who has witnessed the usurpation of the national Church by these radical elements. The hate mongering must stop. These people must be stopped.

I appeal to those of you now in the iron grip of these beast, THINK FOR YOURSELVES! Remember the love of Christ and judge daily if the Church is serving the will of God or if it has only become a MOB.

Letting Terri go is the humane, and Christian, thing to do. Using her as a pawn in the great national debate is a transparent and arrogant act by the RR; they now no longer believe that they can be stopped.

You apparently are a mind reader and know the "true" motives of people who support Terri. You must realize that what you have engaged in here is simple political propaganda.

I could do the same by saying that Liberal support of civil rights is NOT motivated by any true concern for civil rights and equality for minorities, but by a desire for power by keeping their base happy.

It works both ways, doesn't it?

[Ned]

Originally posted by Dissident
she's not starving to death, she's dying of thirst.

she can't feel pain.

Pain? Her family say she is suffering tremendously, which is consistent with their position that Terri in not in a PVS, but it marginally conscious. She continues to communicate with them and she apparently is dying in agony.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Berzerker


WhaaAA?

You don't know the difference between the economy and someone's personal lif... oh, wait, your a Libertarian, thats to be expected...

[Ned]

Originally posted by Dissident
some of you guys don't understand he has authority over her in this state. No one can accept this.

It makes no difference is she's in a PVS or semi-concious. Semi-concious is even a worse state. This means she's aware of the hell she's in. She must feel real great in that case about her parents prolonging her agony.

No matter what her diagnosis, the result is obvious. She's not even close to the level of being disabled. She's nothing.

No one can respect the husband's wishes. They want to impose their own morality on her.

He is a court-appointed guardian. In contrast to her parents, he has manifest conflicts of interest in keeping her alive. This is a travesty.

[Odin]

Ned, THE FAMILY IS IN DENIAL!!! They are misinterpreting involentary, reflexive responses as counscious actions. Do you know what PVS is? Everything except her brainstem is dead, there can be no emotion or conscious action.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Dissident


I admit I'm not up on the law about this exactly.

You can argue that spouses should not have say over their loved ones in this situation. In fact, I've argued this in the first Terri thread. I don't like the husband's motivations. But the law is the law. And no one can seem to respect the law.

If you don't like it, change the power of attorney laws of spouses. In fact, better yet, dissolve the institution of marriage altogether.

I have posted several times on the legal landscape. Most states require a writing to determine "consent." Others, like Florida, require "clear and convincing" evidence, but interpret this to require more than parol testimony. Florida is almost unique in it very low standard of finding required consent.

A POA would differ from a Living Will in that it expressly authorized a person to make decisions for you when you are incapacitated, and gives express parameters for such a decision. In absence of such a POA, doctors try to get the family to reach a consensus on terminally ill patients. But most states still do not allow people like Terry who are not terminally ill to be killed by the family without some demonstration of consent.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Dissident
yes.. it would be more humane (and much quicker) to euthanize her. But that is illegal. I would think they would at least give her lots of morphine. So she could die high as a kite.

What the State is doing here is barbaric, IMHO.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Dissident
get this. The judge has been kicked out of his church.

I think the judge will be a fool to stand for reelection.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Odin
Ned, THE FAMILY IS IN DENIAL!!! They are misinterpreting involentary, reflexive responses as counscious actions. Do you know what PVS is? Everything except her brainstem is dead, there can be no emotion or conscious action.

Odin, she can talk, she can laugh, she can cry.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Ned


Odin, she can talk, she can laugh, she can cry.

No she can't.

[Ned]

Odin, she did, on Friday, according to testimony submitted to the Florida court.