Schiavo Thread Part Deux

[notyoueither]

How do you know this is not an exception if a judge will not hear the nurses?

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


I'm sorry. If people are going to now start saying Schiavo beat his wife, I'm going to say her parents abused her.

thats quite ok feed the fire the woman clearly had issues if she had an eating disorder not parents fault cleary they feel guilty they didnt catch it before she got like this

[Guynemer]

Dude, it hasn't been just one neurologist. Every neurologist who has examined her, apart from the quack the family hired, have reached the same conclusion.

[DRoseDARs]

Jesus tap-dancing Christ, now they're jamming emergency lines

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/florida/sfl-0325abusehotline,0,3822194.story?coll=sfla-news-florida

Protesters in Schiavo case flood Florida abuse hot line

The Associated Press
Posted March 25 2005, 8:59 PM EST

TALLAHASSEE -- Hundreds of protesters trying to keep Terri Schiavo alive are calling the Florida Department of Children & Families hot line each day, and officials are concerned they could be jamming the line for people who are trying to report abuse unrelated to the case.

``The Department of Children & Families appreciates the concern expressed in a number of heartfelt calls to the abuse hot line on behalf of Terri Schiavo's well-being. Inadvertently these callers may be putting other neglected, abused and vulnerable citizens at risk,'' said DCF spokeswoman Zoraya Suarez on Friday.

The department typically receives 1,300 calls each day, handled by 140 operators over three shifts, on days that the Schiavo case is not in the news.

The department, citing reported abuse, has filed two petitions with a Pinellas County court seeking to take emergency, temporary custody of Schiavo, who has gone without food or water since a judge ordered the removal of her feeding tube March 18. Both have been denied and are being appealed.

Gov. Jeb Bush's office also asked protesters to stop calling the line.

``We understand the strong emotions on both sides, but we would implore people to please not call the abuse hot line because it could be preventing new emergencies from being reported when time is of the essence,'' said Bush spokeswoman Alia Faraj.

[notyoueither]

Maybe a judge has and I am full of crap, but if not... I think a judge should hear from the people who are most familiar with her and who are health care professionals... Given the vehemence of the parents, I would want to know if there is fire behind that smoke.

[chequita guevara]

I don't trust the parents/ I think they are lying manipualtive snakes. They simply are fighting because it's against their religion to let the body die.

pro-life scum

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Guynemer
Dude, it hasn't been just one neurologist. Every neurologist who has examined her, apart from the quack the family hired, have reached the same conclusion.

I get the drift that the odds are stacked against them, but I have a hard time writing off the feelings of the parents when they are backed up by nurses.

Maybe it's already happened, but I think the nurses should be heard. If they have, then well...

[Mrs. Tuberski]

che that body is thier making It cant be easy for them either
Thes people have thire reasons and you dont agree with them

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ned

From my understanding, there has been only one hearing on this matter. At that hearing, Terri was not represented by an attorney to test whether her husband was lying or not about Terri's wishes.

She had an court appointed guardian to speak for her interests. What would be the point of counsel, if she could not talk with a client.

Over the course of the last several days I have heard numbers of witnesses flatly contradict the so-called court experts on Terri's consciousness, and on whether Terri ever gave consent to her being put to death.

And they do this NOW? Where were they for the hearing? The court had three competent witnesses come up during the hearing itself- if these tons of people "know" these things, one wonders where they were when it mattered?


Tonight on Hannity's show, a co-worker/friend of Terri's testified that Michael and Terri would often fight and would leave Terri with bruises. The day before the event, she had a major row with Michael over spending $80 on her hair. She told her friend that she was contemplating divorce.

Another former friend of Michael and Terri flatly states that Michael is lying about the consent issue, and about a lot of other issues as well. She describes a party where she overheard Michael tell another girl that he had no idea what Terri would have wanted in this condition.

And she submited the affidavits to the courts in the 90's, right? OH, woops. Well, thanks for the tip now McCoy....

She said that Micheal changed into a monster after the coming into possession of the malpractice award and revoked all his prior promises to take care of Terri, etc. Instead, he began to use the money to end Terri's life.

Someones personal opinions don;t mean ****.

I have heard nurse after nurse declare that Terri is conscious, can talk and does talk.

Given that this is claim not even the parents make, one has to wonder who the hell they are draging in front of TV.

Finally, there is the most recent testimony that Terri declared her wish to stay alive last Friday. Her attorney asked her to just say "I want to live." Terri exclaimed "I." Then she stuggled. Then she screamed "Wannnnnn..." Then she struggled some more and started to cry.

If this had 0 merit, the lawyer who "saw this" would have included it in a previous filing, not the last one. Its actually pretty pathetic and a wastes of the court's time. What is the punishment, if any, for filling false affidavits?

Her sister was present when this occurred and confirms the facts. The guard outside the door also heard the screams and can testify.

Well, good that this did not get to court, otherwise we would have multiple cases of perjury.

Biased? I think there are enough people who have no interest whatsoever in the the outcome of this case who have flatly contradicted the testimony of Michael, someone who has an apparent conflict. Biased? Bull.

What about the three guardians appointed by the courts and the multiple doctors working for the court who studied her and found evidence that all those claims you are bringing up are a buchn of ****??

You know what? There are many witnesses to UFO's. Somehow, that doesn't make UFO's true.

This is judicial tyranny at its most vile.

NO, this is people wasting the courts time and making utter asses of themselves on TV for a "cause".

[chequita guevara]

You're arguing with me after I clearly stated I'm engaging in character assassinaton?

I will note you were far more willing to believe ill of the husband than the folks, even if we've learned anything from psychiatry, it's always the parents fault!

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I don't trust the parents/ I think they are lying manipualtive snakes. They simply are fighting because it's against their religion to let the body die.

pro-life scum

Scum, eh?

What are they supposed to do when the life of their daughter is at stake. Follow your conscience?

Say they are right, maybe a real small chance of that, but if they believe they are right they should be criticised for only fighting like snakes when the life of their child is on the line.

[TCO]

"I've long been fascinated by the way people apply ideology to decide simple issues of fact. This phenomenon occurs, for example, in disputes about whether public figures engaged in misconduct. Thus, it is my understanding that most people made up their minds about whether Alger Hiss once belonged to a communist cell along ideological lines. And this certainly was true with respect to public sentiment about whether Clarence Thomas made certain statements to Anita Hill. As I discussed here, however, ideology had nothing useful to tell us about what Hiss and Thomas actually did. Nor, under any rational account, did the validity of anti-communist or feminist ideology depend on the conduct of these particular protagonists.

To some extent, we see ideology driving opinions about factual matters in the Terri Schiavo matter too. Take, for example, the question of what (if anything) Terri told her husband about the circumstances under which she would not want to be cared for. Some people seem to be answering this question with great conviction based on little more than their ideology.

Fortunately, the more careful supporters of keeping Terri alive avoid this trap. They do so by making presumptions, and in particular the presumption in favor of life that President Bush mentioned. Thus, without claiming to know what Terri told her husband, one can argue that, absent written evidence, she should be presumed not to have said she would want to die.

There are also important scientific questions of fact that many are answering through ideology. These include whether or to what extent Terri feels pain and, more generally, what her state of consciousness is. As John Podhoretz notes, when scientific rationalists look at Terri, they tend to see a vegetable in a horrible state from which death would be a welcome relief. When those on the other side look at her, they see something more substantial. However, as neurologist Kenneth Gross argues in today's Washington Times questions about what Terri feels and about her state of consciousness are essentially unanswerable on the basic of today's science. Thus, it is understandable that people resolve them based on their world view.

Less understandable, except as a matter of pathology, is the way some on the ideological left are viewing the matter. I'm referring to what Peggy Noonan calls "the bizarre passion of the pull-the-tube people." As Noonan notes, the likes of the Democratic Underground and James Carville can scarcely contain their glee that attempts to prevent Terri from death through de-hydration have failed. Why? Maybe they have "fallen half in love with death," as Noonan suggests? Or maybe they are just frustrated by losing elections, seeing the tide turn in Iraq and elsewhere in the Middle East (must Terri die for Bush's "sins"?), etc. Whatever the case, it makes for a sad and sorry spectacle."

[Guynemer]

I agree. The parents are not scum. They're finding it impossible to let go--that is certainly understandable.

It's important to remember that the family are not the bad guys in this situation.

The bad guys are all those people who have used this horrible family tragedy for self-promotion and grandstanding--primarily Congress.

[Sava]

PEGGY NOONAN LOL

[GePap]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Maybe a judge has and I am full of crap, but if not... I think a judge should hear from the people who are most familiar with her and who are health care professionals... Given the vehemence of the parents, I would want to know if there is fire behind that smoke.

Given that any nurses actually treating her would likely not be running to the TV, one has to wonder which "nurses" these are. Someone who took care of her in 1995 would have seriously outdated info.

And why would the judge decide to hear statements that fly in the face of the facts? Hell, Terry is so damned active, why doesn;t she just run out of the room??? Its pretty absurd.