Another means of population control for China?

[pchang]

The demand for bottled water is because of the marketing

[Kidlicious]

Really? What marketing?

[Elok]

What does MNC stand for though?

Anyway, I think it simply won't do to confuse overall ideology with individual motives. The theory of capitalism is that competition yields a higher quality of goods and services by way of semi-evolutionary selection. The theory of communism is a rather different road to a similar goal, on which I won't speculate further because I still have no idea what the deuce you people are talking about.

But the single bureaucrat or businessman isn't doing what he does for the sake of providing the most prosperous economy for all concerned. It would be nice if he did, but that's just not realistic. Chances are good that the individual guy is just thinking about how to meet this next performance review or how to squeeze out a profit or how to smooth the latest catastrophe over so he won't have his butt put over the fire by management and be looking for a job six weeks from now. That's where the decisions are made, regardless of the big ideology that arranges the decisions. I'm still not convinced that any ideology can prevent bad decisions from being made to begin with. People fail sometimes.

[Elok]

Sava was involved in a discussion and somebody other than Sava was the first to abandon civility for petty partisan name-calling!



It wasn't Fez either! Horror! What's the world coming to?

[Sava]

Originally posted by Elok
Sava was involved in a discussion and somebody other than Sava was the first to abandon civility for petty partisan name-calling!



It wasn't Fez either! Horror! What's the world coming to?

bah, I only react to other people... I rarely am the first to throw insults around...

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Elok
What does MNC stand for though?

Multinational Corporation

Anyway, I think it simply won't do to confuse overall ideology with individual motives. The theory of capitalism is that competition yields a higher quality of goods and services by way of semi-evolutionary selection. The theory of communism is a rather different road to a similar goal, on which I won't speculate further because I still have no idea what the deuce you people are talking about.

But the single bureaucrat or businessman isn't doing what he does for the sake of providing the most prosperous economy for all concerned. It would be nice if he did, but that's just not realistic. Chances are good that the individual guy is just thinking about how to meet this next performance review or how to squeeze out a profit or how to smooth the latest catastrophe over so he won't have his butt put over the fire by management and be looking for a job six weeks from now. That's where the decisions are made, regardless of the big ideology that arranges the decisions. I'm still not convinced that any ideology can prevent bad decisions from being made to begin with. People fail sometimes.

The people aren't failing. They are doing what they are intended to do. In a capitalist system those with capital make that decision. They do so so that they can make the most profit possible. The result is polution. There is no individuals to blame, only the system.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Kidicious

Multinational Corporation


The people aren't failing. They are doing what they are intended to do. In a capitalist system those with capital make that decision. They do so so that they can make the most profit possible. The result is polution. There is no individuals to blame, only the system.

if you take into account the cost, in lives, and the cost of health care caused by pollution; current polluting methods are not the most profitable... it's just that polluters are too short sighted to see this.

It's not the system. It's the individuals.

More "advanced" methods of manufacturing or power generation would be, by definition, more efficient... i.e. cheaper to operate, simpler to maintain, cleaner, and produces more power. AND... more profitable.

It's just that individuals are not willing to put forth the initial investment to acquire such methods faster. In the long run, more advanced methods will be more profitable. It's the short-sightedness of individuals that prevents advancement.

Plus, blaming the system lets polluters escape the responsibility of their actions.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Sava
if you take into account the cost, in lives, and the cost of health care caused by pollution; current polluting methods are not the most profitable... it's just that polluters are too short sighted to see this.

It's not the system. It's the individuals.

More "advanced" methods of manufacturing or power generation would be, by definition, more efficient... i.e. cheaper to operate, simpler to maintain, cleaner, and produces more power. AND... more profitable.

It's just that individuals are not willing to put forth the initial investment to acquire such methods faster. In the long run, more advanced methods will be more profitable. It's the short-sightedness of individuals that prevents advancement.

It's pointless to blame people for being themselves.

Plus, blaming the system lets polluters escape the responsibility of their actions.

No it doesn't. I don't care if you blame them or not. The important thing is that water is clean.

[Elok]

Uh, systems are started by people. Systems are perpetuated by people, changed by people, destroyed by people. Somebody somewhere along the line has to make a decision to start all the wheels spinning no matter what kind of system you set up, and no system is better than the people who make it work. If I honestly thought any system could overwhelm human nature, I'm not sure I'd trust it because somebody somewhere had to have made it up, and that someone was probably human himself.

We're not talking about blaming people for being themselves, we merely acknowledge the fact that they will be themselves no matter what kind of convoluted hierarchy you install, because every person in that hierarchy will be a human being himself with his own motives, his own interests, his own little games on the side. No system can be substituted for conscious, informed decision, not in the real world. It won't even work well for a fake world, as players of Civ can attest.

[General Ludd]

The demand for bottled water is because of the marketing

Originally posted by Kidicious
Really? What marketing?

Water safety warnings.

[Kidlicious]

Again, polution isn't caused by people making ill-informed decisions or because people are evil. It's created because people seek profit, and that's what they are intended to do within the system. There are very real reasons why they are allowed to do so that have everything to do with the system.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Again, polution isn't caused by people making ill-informed decisions or because people are evil. It's created because people seek profit, and that's what they are intended to do within the system. There are very real reasons why they are allowed to do so that have everything to do with the system.

I heard in prehistoric times, man just littered all of the bones and carcasses from their kill all over the place when they were done with them... for profit and the pro-historic system, right?

[General Ludd]

I agree with the sentiment of everything you've said in this thread, Kid.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


I heard in prehistoric times, man just littered all of the bones and carcasses from their kill all over the place when they were done with them... for profit and the pro-historic system, right?

That isn't pollution, that is the ecosystem.

[MOBIUS]

I thought this would be a thread about their invasion of Taiwan in 2008 during the Olympic Games...