Leftist government cutting taxes for corporations?? Plus Kyoto and energy

[chequita guevara]

Joking about killing people is not funny.

[Provost Harrison]

Normally no, but this is nye we are talking about here

[chequita guevara]

Yes, so instead of joking about killing in general, you're joking about someone specific, about how you'd specifically like him to no longer exist. It's beyond repulsive.

The only people who actually merit death are war criminals and torturers, and while some of NYE's posts are torture, that's not the kind I mean.

And hell, from a pragmatic standpoint, it just alientates people from our viewpoint and confirms in their minds that we're nothing more than a bunch of ideological murderers who, if given the chance, would repeat the crimes of Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Azazel

That's why a cost-benefit analysis has to be made!

A cost benefit analysis !! wow that changes everything !! Suddenly wells are successful on the first try : . Listen you obviously have no idea about the oil industry where on an exploration well, a one in ten shot at a success is considered pretty good odds.

I can gurantee that the oil companies that do drilling all the time do a "cost benefit analysis " all the time. This does in no way guarantee success in any given well, pool or geographic area. Its risky and most exploration wells fail.

I just question whether there would be the political will to continue drilling if a state-owned oil company has sunk 200 million or 250 million and have yet to find ANYTHING. The oil companies that actually did do this, shared the costs across a number of them and could balance the failures in one area with successes elsewhere. Plus shareholders in oil companies usually know that these things are part of the industry.

But a government would be asked if this is another boondoggle and there would be calls to redirect the money to health or education. Consider that the Newfoundland government has a history of spectacular failures and I wonder how long the "people" would accept that they know what they are doing ( Cucumbers anyone??)

Originally posted by Azazel

I am just saying that discarding this idea from the get go just because "govurmut dont no how to do stuff" is silly.

I agree that I don't see any reason why government inherently is incapable of "doing stuff". In theory they are great .. .. Its just in practice, government trying to run industry seems more questionable and in Newfoundland there is a long history of horrific government forays into various businesses

[Flubber]

Originally posted by notyoueither


High School Communism meets Market Reality 101.

Sure, they want the successes, but can they wear the failures?

Thats my point. Oil exploration takes deep pockets and a willingness to accept very large risks and the failures that come with those risks. I'm just imaging how the political feeling would be about a government venture if the first ten wells didn't bring a commercial success. I'm betting the public wouldn't care much that the well was a technical success or that it validated the concept of the play. Meanwhile, the opposition parties are having a field day about this "government waste while many of our people have inadequate healthcare/education/ roads"

[Az]

I agree that I don't see any reason why government inherently is incapable of "doing stuff". In theory they are great .. .. Its just in practice, government trying to run industry seems more questionable and in Newfoundland there is a long history of horrific government forays into various businesses

Well, if newfoundland's people don't want to change their government, what can I say?

I mean, in europe and around the world, government does own bussinesses. The fact that newfoundland's government is such a case can be blamed only on the people who elect the government, i.e. "the people"

[Dinner]

The Chinese have been pushing hydro long before Kyoto and it has nothing to do with green houses gases. Instead it has to do with 1) more irigation water 2) big construction projects to employ lots of China's excess workers 3) Hydro is cheap once the infastructure is paid for.

That the lakes create shipping lanes is also a benifit. Green House gases aren't even on their mind.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Azazel

Well, if newfoundland's people don't want to change their government, what can I say?

I mean, in europe and around the world, government does own bussinesses. The fact that newfoundland's government is such a case can be blamed only on the people who elect the government, i.e. "the people"

Actually the individuals and even the parties that make up the government have changed but there has been a government disaster of some type at frequent enough intervals that people in NL really distrust government to get it right when it comes to running or supporting any business venture. It actually places a huge burden on government negotiators as they feel the need to avoid the appearance of " making a bad deal" at any cost. Actually they are pretty gun-shy as a deal that might be objectively fair might not pass muster.


Thats why I laughed at the idea of a Newfoundland government oil company. Its not that it is not possible . . . its just that such a concept ignores every existing political reality

[pchang]

I think Oerdin posted in the wrong thread. As for Government businesses, you should take a look at what happened when Gray Davis tried to get California into the electricity business a few years ago. The results there are much more typical. Most politicians are good politicians, not good businessmen. The inverse is also true. We gravitate towards where our talents lie.

[Dinner]

Wrong thread.

[pchang]

Just out of curiousity, how many windows/apps do you typically keep open at one time?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by pchang
I think Oerdin posted in the wrong thread. As for Government businesses, you should take a look at what happened when Gray Davis tried to get California into the electricity business a few years ago. The results there are much more typical. Most politicians are good politicians, not good businessmen. The inverse is also true. We gravitate towards where our talents lie.

I can agree with this.


I also think that the public has a very different expectation of a government actor in a business area. The government actor may be expected to pursue public policy even through the business entity ( say local hiring instead of hiring the most qualified people) . .. and losses are a lot harder to accept if the public sees that money as something that could have funded a new school or a new hospital bed.

I often see government agencies in business as having a continuing conflict. First there is the conflict of the business with government policy. Then mix in the fact that government will be regulating the industry and it is even more fun.

I believe that the most effective government businesses are those where the government takes a hands off approach and allows some flexibility. For example a large oil company tied to one geographic area has much higher risks than one that is geographically diversified.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by pchang
I think Oerdin posted in the wrong thread. As for Government businesses, you should take a look at what happened when Gray Davis tried to get California into the electricity business a few years ago. The results there are much more typical. Most politicians are good politicians, not good businessmen. The inverse is also true. We gravitate towards where our talents lie.

There is little difference between buisness and politics.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by General Ludd


There is little difference between buisness and politics.

I can't agree with this

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Agathon
NYE is a capitalist fanatic.

Don't worry, he's on "the list".

Careful, boy. Apparently your precious gun registry isn't telling you or the police which properties in Alberta have assault weapons in ready reach.

Come the revolution, it'd be pretty funny the reaction you lot get out here. You should be careful about who is on which list.