Leftist government cutting taxes for corporations?? Plus Kyoto and energy

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Azazel

those aren't equivalent, and you know it.

.

I know and I don't pretend they are. But I do find the comparison interesting. An oil company can throw thousands of man-hours into exploring and developing something and people act like its a windfall instead of the reward for hard work.


If a worker works hard, all the commies cry out if they don't get full value of their labours. Appropriating value becuase you own something is seen as wrong.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Flubber
Newfoundland state oil would necessarily need people in Newfoundland at the earliest stage as it would be politically unpalatable to base them elsewhere. Remember though at the initial stage you would have to recruit people before any exploration is done so there would have been the possibility that nothing would be found. I'm also curious about how fun it would be politically to see 10-15 early drilling failures at 30 milllion dollars a pop. After 3 or 4 , the state oil company would have been shut down as another pipe-dream

High School Communism meets Market Reality 101.

Sure, they want the successes, but can they wear the failures?

[Az]

Newfoundland state oil would necessarily need people in Newfoundland at the earliest stage as it would be politically unpalatable to base them elsewhere. Remember though at the initial stage you would have to recruit people before any exploration is done so there would have been the possibility that nothing would be found. I'm also curious about how fun it would be politically to see 10-15 early drilling failures at 30 milllion dollars a pop. After 3 or 4 , the state oil company would have been shut down as another pipe-dream

That's why a cost-benefit analysis has to be made! I am just saying that discarding this idea from the get go just because "govurmut dont no how to do stuff" is silly.

High School Communism meets Market Reality 101.

Sure, they want the successes, but can they wear the failures?

Oh, you're such a brave fighter and prover of wrongs, nye. What would we do without you?

I know and I don't pretend they are. But I do find the comparison interesting. An oil company can throw thousands of man-hours into exploring and developing something and people act like its a windfall instead of the reward for hard work.


If a worker works hard, all the commies cry out if they don't get full value of their labours. Appropriating value becuase you own something is seen as wrong.

That's because there is another thing at play in these discussions, which has nothing to do with "owning stuff", "earning stuff", etc. All of these are only a part of the discussion. There is also what will be done with the wealth that is earned in the process. The goal here is not to maximize the wealth that is created in the process, necessarily, but to maximize the average non-wealth ( i.e. not income per capita, but rather a utility function that is only partly based on it) benefit it brings to people.

When one fights for the rights of the worker, when one ensures that that worker gets paid more, has more benefits, etc. The increase in the lifestyle of that individual would be much bigger than the raise in the money provided to the CEO, or the rich stockholder of the company that. 1000 bucks a month, for example, won't matter nearly as much to the CEO as they would to the worker. Thus, increasing pay for the workers is more important. However, improving performance, through meriting good personal performance with more pay is also important for the same reasons.
These should be reconciled with each other, with an optimum for the happiness of people, not maximum total output of the society. These aren't always the same, especially if the society/market with the maximum total output brings the wealth created mainly to those who are wealthy already.

Remember, economics isn't about how to bring the output to maximum. Economics is a study of the behavior of people and goods. It's a tool.

[notyoueither]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Azazel

Newfoundland state oil would necessarily need people in Newfoundland at the earliest stage as it would be politically unpalatable to base them elsewhere. Remember though at the initial stage you would have to recruit people before any exploration is done so there would have been the possibility that nothing would be found. I'm also curious about how fun it would be politically to see 10-15 early drilling failures at 30 milllion dollars a pop. After 3 or 4 , the state oil company would have been shut down as another pipe-dream

That's why a cost-benefit analysis has to be made! I am just saying that discarding this idea from the get go just because "govurmut dont no how to do stuff" is silly.

It's not silly when governments are not well suited to judging prospects and gambling with public dollars.

You really don't want to lecture Canadians about this when we just spent $2 billion on a data base to keep track of the gun ownership of 30 million people?

It's a $2 billion dollar computer system, that still doesn't stop 4 Mounties from being wasted despite we were told how it would be a boon to law enforcement and help them make good judgements about properties they had to approach, fer fecks sakes! WTF didn't it tell them that the moron had an assault weapon?! What, because the government doesn't know **** from stink and can barely be trusted with our retirement savings? Oops. Strike that. Anyone under thirty is fairly sure they are on their own. /rant

Given that, you have a mile to go to come by chance that governments should be allowed to gamble with public money.

High School Communism meets Market Reality 101.

Sure, they want the successes, but can they wear the failures?

Oh, you're such a brave fighter and prover of wrongs, nye. What would we do without you?

Still swinging after all these years.

[Az]

It's not silly when governments are not well suited to judging prospects and gambling with public dollars.

You really don't want to lecture Canadians about this when we just spent $2 billion on a data base to keep track of the gun ownership of 30 million people?

It's a $2 billion dollar computer system, that still doesn't stop 4 Mounties from being wasted despite we were told how it would be a boon to law enforcement and help them make good judgements about properties they had to approach, fer fecks sakes! WTF didn't it tell them that the moron had an assault weapon?! What, because the government doesn't know **** from stink and can barely be trusted with our retirement savings? Oops. Strike that. Anyone under thirty is fairly sure they are on their own. /rant

Given that, you have a mile to go to come by chance that governments should be allowed to gamble with public money.

I am very sorry about your government sucking, and that's why I wish there was more direct government (as in immideate influence on politicians based on performance in economic matters), however, both Canada and Israel have many successful government corporations that ran once, and in Israel, many are still running, while those that are the main proponents of the privatization are ironically the ones that do the most damage to them ( coincidence? I don't think so ).

[notyoueither]

Many successful government corporations? Canada? Name them, please.

[Az]

Urrr, actually, I am not sure about canada. I've heard you have those.

[notyoueither]

I think you've been misled.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Not gonna happen

Probably what I said many a year ago...I had a wake up call in terms of how things can go wrong...

[Agathon]

NYE is a capitalist fanatic.

Don't worry, he's on "the list".

[Provost Harrison]

I've staked out a particularly prominent lamp post for him

[Agathon]

I bet he's a fatty. We'll need two.

[Provost Harrison]

A little porcine eh? How apt for a capitalist

[Agathon]

Let's force him to be a homosexual before we off him. Right wingers hate that.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by General Ludd

That's one of the most fundemental natural rights. The right to starve to death.

And yet government is trying to take this one away as well!