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Bush signs emergency law to preempt state courts ref Terry Schiavo

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  • DinoDoc - they have a very definite agenda, which they published. While they are focused on international factors, they have both domestic aims, i.e. smaller government - plans to achieve it - "Starve the beast" - and compromises they have had to make to achieve it. The Moral Majority.

    Note I don't believe they are trying to deliberatelyl down democratic institutions or processes in this country. They, and many of those leading them, are determined to win whatever the cost. They are too short-sighted to see the cost. Note that certain liberal constituencies are just as bad, i.e. I don't want PETA running my life any more than the Moral Majority. The difference is that the Moral Majority exercises de facto veto power in non-incumbent primaries in most Republican primaries - I am a registered Republican, by the way who votes in the primaries - while PETA is at most on the far fringes of the Democratic party, and does not get to write over half the party platform (did you read the last two Republican Party Platforms)?

    If I'm wrong - then why on earth did the Republicans in Congress, and President Bush, stick their damn nose into this while ignoring established legal procedures, as helpfully posted by Imran - you know, the man who defends Scalia (not exactly what I would call liberal). However, Imran tries very hard to be consistant, and realizes how far reaching and dangerous this is. Why won't you acknowledge that this shows the true colors of the current Republican powers at the national level, and it is just as dangerous as some of the liberals in the 1960's, IMHO more so, but I will admit I have not closely stuided the latter as I was a mite bit too young to watch politics then.

    BTW, I have to go to bed, so I'll check the posts later. I work graveyard shifts.
    The worst form of insubordination is being right - Keith D., marine veteran. A dictator will starve to the last civilian - self-quoted
    And on the eigth day, God realized it was Monday, and created caffeine. And behold, it was very good. - self-quoted
    Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it.
    Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I'm very sorry… I wish it were otherwise.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by SpencerH


      At a guess I would say that there are many 10's of thousands of people in this country who cannot feed themselves and are incapable of making any decision about their situation. In addition to the cases of mental retardation of various types, all one need do is look into any nursing home to find victims of alzheimers, other dementias, and age. If food is defined as 'treatment' then there is nothing stopping any guardian (including the state) claiming it to be 'the wishes of the patient' and removing such 'treatment'.
      Being mentally retarded in never treated the same as being commatose or vegetative. Such people are assumed to be incapable of making the right decision, BUT they are still concious and capable of doing something- so the assumption, rightly, is that unless they say so, they must be kept alive- and since they can;t really make sucha decision, they are kept alive.

      Someone who is comatose or vegetative is not even concious. They are in a whole nother legal category. And in this case there is testimony that the patient asked not to be kept in such a state. The courts have found the claim to be valid.

      I see no worthwhile parallel between the two situations.


      Legal precedent is set when a legal decision is made. If a court made that decision then the precedent was set at that time. That doesnt mean, however, that the govt couldnt define that removing food under similar conditions is (at best) euthaniasia.


      The Court accepted the statement that the patient did not want to be kept in such a state and evidence that her state is permanent. Such rulings have occured many times before. The only thing special about this case has been the Schindler's family's adept use of the media and its ability to muster politically connected interest groups to back its losing court case.

      pQUOTE]
      IMO, we have to either accept euthanasia (or not) as a society. Court derived definitions of sustenance as 'treatment' is merely sidestepping the issue. Allowing the courts to decide these issues is cowardice. [/QUOTE]

      No, its American jurisprudence based on the laws passed by the people of the states who have jurisdiction over this civil matter.
      If you don't like reality, change it! me
      "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
      "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
      "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Patroklos


        So Terry is the same thing as a murderer?
        Is cruelly executing people to satisfy one's warped belief system the same as cruelly keeping another person alive solely to satisfy the same belief system? Yes it is. It all amounts to cruelty in the name of justice. Noone seems to care what this poor woman wanted except her husband.

        I can see your struggling, these are complex ideas, but do try and keep up.
        Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..

        Look, I just don't anymore, okay?

        Comment


        • Ok im going to say this and then hide behind a wall to get away from the water ballons that will be thrown at me I think the state judgments didnt take into consideration the resultsof their actions i could be in the future. lets forget terry schiavo for a minute. this if not further reviewed could be harmful for situations that may be similiar. For example doctors are not perfect they could be wrong Suppose a person is diagonised like terry, there needs to be ample time to allow this person to recover or try to recover. Under the states decison they have opened the door for a guardian to prematuraily pull the plug. Drs are human and can make a mistake. Im not in any way saying this applies to terry but isnt likely that this could happen?
          When you find yourself arguing with an idiot, you might want to rethink who the idiot really is.
          "It can't rain all the time"-Eric Draven
          Being dyslexic is hard work. I don't even try anymore.

          Comment


          • Judging by all the legal hoops her husband has had to jump through to fulfil her wish? no.
            Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..

            Look, I just don't anymore, okay?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Tuberski


              I still think loving husband is a joke. While I don't blame him for having a girlfriend and children with said girlfriend, it doesn't mean he was right to do it.

              Wedding vows say "til death do us part", not, " til your wife is in a vegetative state."

              ACK!
              well if the state would just let her die, it wouldnt be an issue.
              "I hope I get to punch you in the face one day" - MRT144, Imran Siddiqui
              'I'm fairly certain that a ban on me punching you in the face is not a "right" worth respecting." - loinburger

              Comment


              • I dont think anybody realizes this case isnt just about terry anymore. Its about what is to come with future people in the same situation.
                When you find yourself arguing with an idiot, you might want to rethink who the idiot really is.
                "It can't rain all the time"-Eric Draven
                Being dyslexic is hard work. I don't even try anymore.

                Comment


                • the law shouldnt be changed. the law is being upheld the way its supposed to. you just dont like it.
                  "I hope I get to punch you in the face one day" - MRT144, Imran Siddiqui
                  'I'm fairly certain that a ban on me punching you in the face is not a "right" worth respecting." - loinburger

                  Comment


                  • I don't think her feeding tube should be removed. That is cruel too. No winners in this case.
                    Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..

                    Look, I just don't anymore, okay?

                    Comment


                    • I will say for me the only problem I have with this is that you are now putting power in the hands of people that may not have the best interst in mind of the person who is in a positon such as this women .
                      When you find yourself arguing with an idiot, you might want to rethink who the idiot really is.
                      "It can't rain all the time"-Eric Draven
                      Being dyslexic is hard work. I don't even try anymore.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
                        I don't think her feeding tube should be removed. That is cruel too. No winners in this case.
                        Why is it cruel? She is PVS... she feels no pain and the end result is the same.
                        To us, it is the BEAST.

                        Comment


                        • the law figures that the husband does have the best interest in mind. imagine how many more legal fights will arise because of **** like this.

                          what if the situation is reversed?

                          would you object so strongly?
                          "I hope I get to punch you in the face one day" - MRT144, Imran Siddiqui
                          'I'm fairly certain that a ban on me punching you in the face is not a "right" worth respecting." - loinburger

                          Comment


                          • they have both domestic aims, i.e. smaller government




                            That's wierd, because other 'critics' have said that a Neo-con 'domestic agenda' is more trusting of big government than regular conservatism (some right wing critics have called neoconservatism's 'domestic agenda' as really being socialism). Goes to show that neoconservatism has no domestic agenda, and the opponents want to assign it one based on what their most hated neocon believes in the domestic sphere, even if two neocons believe in vastly different domestic policies.

                            ---

                            Oh, interestingly enough FOXnews' legal analyst went on and said this law Congress passed is blatently unconstitutional.
                            “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                            - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                            Comment


                            • I am not just talking about terry schiavo. I am talking about other people that could happen upon this same occurance. I.e My husband some how hurts me and puts me in terrys condition, he only wants me out of the way. Pulling the plug is in his best interest not mine.
                              Btw I believe she should be able to die of those were her wishes, I dont agree with how they are going about killing her. Granted at this time there is no other solution. But I have also stated why does the husband keep figthing the family why doesnt he just divorce wash his hands and move on. What is he trying to prove?
                              When you find yourself arguing with an idiot, you might want to rethink who the idiot really is.
                              "It can't rain all the time"-Eric Draven
                              Being dyslexic is hard work. I don't even try anymore.

                              Comment


                              • mrs tubes... HE IS TRYING TO FOLLOW TERRI'S WISHES THAT"S WHY HE DOES NOT JUST WASH HIS HANDS AND MOVE ON
                                To us, it is the BEAST.

                                Comment

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