Do you support grade/discipline based segregation in schools ?

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat

Perhaps the one who know why they're rebellious are, but there are plenty of disruptive or destructive students who either can't or won't do the work because it's beyond them, or doesn't suit them.

... or because they're just a ssholes.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Sava
Kid, you are sounding more and more like a conservative.

I actually have a fairly conservative personality. I've always had a bad taste for hippy nice nice philosophy.

[Mrs. Tuberski]

I agree with ben alot of bright kids become disruptive to try and be cool. In school I think its all about acceptance. Some kids really sit down and want to be the head of the class but most dont.

[Barinthus]

To be honest I never will understand attitude some of you have described.

I went to one of top public high schools in my state. I'd say at least 80% of us took our education very seriously - good number of us came from upper middle class (not me) where parents were college educated themselves and very involved. It's a small town too so everybody knows everybody.

Rebellious kids or those who don't care about their education were considered socially unacceptable at my school.

Nearly everybody in my graduating class went on to college and about third of them went on to Ivy League schools.

Teachers were respected. Sure, we didn't always agree with them but we respected them (or at least pretend to). Those who displayed their disrespect openly to a teacher -

In four years of high school, I only received one detention and it was for being late three times to school. Receiving a detention is considered a shameful thing.

For me, receiving a 'C' is shameful and 'B' barely tolerable.

Before anybody make a comment it's a nerd school or whatever, it's the opposite actually. Most students were involved in sports all around the year. Our teams often won state championships or placed very high statewide.

So I will just never understand why would anybody just want to urinate away their education. :shrug:

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Holy hell Getting a c was bad. I guess for some thats not accpetable but look at the pressures you put on your self trying to get that A. What happens when you try to enjoy your childhood? There is more to life then A's in school.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Kidicious


I've always had a bad taste for hippy nice nice philosophy.

You're not the only one.

Mrs. Tubes,

There is more to life then A's in school.

Not when your a smart kid hoping for a good scholarship.

[Barinthus]

I was on yearbook committee, drama, track n field, soccer team, was captain of my swim team, and even played intramural volleyball. Quality, not quantity.

[Immortal Wombat]

Getting grades should be on a background of having a childhood. Nobody should be forced to choose between grades or fun. Smart kids will get As regardless of how well they study. I did very little work for my grades.

(And would've had plenty of time for being a teenager, had the internet not stolen my soul)

[Kidlicious]

I did very well in 9th grade, and went down hill from there. After 11th grade I got my GED, but after one year I went to adult school to get my credits real quick. Then I joined the Navy - got the GI Bill, and went to college.

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Odin I respect the scholarship thing really I do but at what cost. I am all for doing your best and working hard. but why loose all of your youth doing that. By all means I have three kids that I hope will qualify for a scholarship. But im not gonna push them to get As if they do so be it and reward them as they go, if they get a b Im not going to kick them. I want them to be the best they can and support them in all they doand if i have to in the end pay for thier college because they didnt get that scholaship then so be it thats my responsability.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Well, my concern is this thread, so far, has only to do with discipline. I didn't adress the question of gifted vs slow students, but only between those who behave and those who don't.

What I call the "few bad apples" are few. They are naturally rebellious against the rules of the school, and they make a mess that hurts the schooling's quality. They are also natural leaders, who convince weaker-willed kids (the great bunch of "followers") to follow their example and make a mess.

I consider the "followers" (= the bulk) not to be bad apples. I consider those few rebellious leaders to be the ones that should be isolated. The "followers", once they're in an environment where no charismatic leader opposes school work, will behave acceptably well as to not make serious problems for the class.

When I'm speaking about discipline, I'm not speaking about the usual chit-chat that happens in a classroom, or to the occasional prank, because those are normal in all sane schools. I'm speaking about the systematic undermining of a teacher's ability to teach. When indiscipline is a serious problem, you bet there's a bad apple somewhere that's spoiling many fellows.

Do you not think that if the followers see the fesults of following , they will improve ?

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
I still say aneeshm has this all backwards.

The rebellious students are the bright ones.

I never said anything about rebellious . If this system is implemented from the very begginning ( and not imposed later ) then the bright students will not get bored of school stupidity and tedium ( because they will be taught the same things in amore challenging way ) , and thus will not become rebellious .

[Barinthus]

Who said I lost my youth? I certainly did not. I truly enjoyed myself back then. School was an adventure of discovery and loads of fun. And I did have a life outside of the school.

What I'm trying to say is because of no disruptive idiots around, my school experience was enhanced and more fun.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Flubber


True, embarrassing a student is a last resort. My dad taught for 30 years and he said he never had to intentionally embarrass a student. If a student was disruptive he would have them stay after for a little chat. My dad can be very persuasive.

After 30 years teaching jr. high he must have Jedi-like powers.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Flubber


You discount the ability of a teacher to control the room. Consider substitutes . . we had one that ended up leaving in tears pretty much every time she subbed. Obviously we were an undisciplined rabble right ??? Yet other substitutes had control of the room within 1 minute of the first time they encountered us.


My dad ( a teacher for 30 years) claimed that his education was almost irrelevant to his ability to control the room. he thought we would be much better served if prospective teachers were given a short 6 week training program and then tossed in the classroom ( WITHOUT the regular teacher there)-- He believed that those that could not control the room in that situation were unlikely to ever be in control of their classroom. Those that could convey or teach something would make the good teachers and should be the ones that would learn all the proper methods.

Good point. In my life I've been to public schools, religious schools, poor schools, rich schools, community colleges, huge state universities, and numerous military schools. The best quality day in and day out was in the military. They had a simple system that taught everyone from the Ivy league grad in my basic training company to the dude with severe learning disabilities.

The base for their system was that they simply did not allow discipline problems. Ever. They'd present the material, give the students a chance to work with the concepts, and then test them at a minimum once a week, but typically more often. Those that passed the test the first time became tutors for those who didn't. The process was repeated until everyone passed or the allotted time ran out. Those who still couldn't master the skills or material being taught were held back while everyone else went on to the next lesson. I swear that many people learned more in the 8 weeks of basic training than they did in their last year of high school.