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Russians get Maskhadov

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Last Conformist

    I'm not going to dig thru a bunch of Iraq threads for your benefit, I'm sorry.
    Too bad.
    They're attacking you.
    And we are killing them. Any criminal deserves punishment, not a negotiation table.
    Would you negotiate with thugs who attacked you and whose only intention is to kill you?

    Comment

    • #62
      Who cares about what they deserve? The issue you should be addressing is whether negotiating with them might lead to a swifter and less bloddy end to the conflict.
      Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?

      It's no good (from an evolutionary point of view) to have the physique of Tarzan if you have the sex drive of a philosopher. -- Michael Ruse
      The Nedaverse I can accept, but not the Berzaverse. There can only be so many alternate realities. -- Elok

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Last Conformist
        Who cares about what they deserve?
        We do, they kill our children not yours.
        The issue you should be addressing is whether negotiating with them might lead to a swifter and less bloddy end to the conflict.
        Once again, you are attacked by gang of thugs. Some of them want to rob you, some of them want to kill you, because they were paid for killing you. Would you negotiate with them or try to protect your self?

        Comment

        • #64
          Originally posted by Serb
          I thought ObL is the most wanted bastard in US, so what US reaction could be in case if BBC post an article about ObL being a hero? I'm just curious.
          we'd despise the BBC for their sympathy with terrorists.

          How would that differ from the current situation?
          "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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          • #65
            It doesn't? Really?

            Comment

            • #66
              With regards to Beslan, I have only seen denials of responsibility from Maskhadov. Where/when did he admit to taking part in the planning of the attack in Beslan?
              “It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”

              ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man​

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              • #67
                He did not.
                "I realise I hold the key to freedom,
                I cannot let my life be ruled by threads" The Web Frogs
                Middle East!

                Comment

                • #68
                  Originally posted by Serb

                  Sure, and the fact that he himself said he was involved in planning of both Nord Ost and Beslan, sure makes him a great negotiator and sure shows how unbiased and honest your media is.


                  You can find war in Iraq. In Chechnya you can find Russian Spetcnaz killing f*cking terrorists like Maskhadov.
                  Bs, he condemned the attack on the besland school. In fact he said he would get rid of basayev himself if he could get him. Get your facts straight. Basayev is the one that wants an strong islamic state, and he's the one doing terrorist attacks. Maschadov was a negotiator and he has split up with Basayev for a long tiem already. After all Maschadov was the one that got a treaty with the Russians in '97 iirc. After hostilities began once again later on he offered numerous times to talk with the Russians, but the Russians refused; they obstinately keep the war going on.
                  Seriously... what kind of propaganda have you been listening to!? The official Putin statements?
                  "An archaeologist is the best husband a women can have; the older she gets, the more interested he is in her." - Agatha Christie
                  "Non mortem timemus, sed cogitationem mortis." - Seneca

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                  • #69
                    Serb, at some point you will have to start negotiating with some Chechen leader. The only other alternative is to kill all of them, and I hope you understand this is not possible (not from a moral, politcal or realistic point of view).

                    In one way his death could be good. Russian propaganda had made him one of the main terrorists, so they could not lose face by starting negotiations with him. At the same time, he was strong enough in Chechnya to make sure nobody else took the "head negotiatior" position. So maybe (this is of course a big maybe), some peace-minded person accepted by Russia will take over the leader role and start a real progress to peace.

                    Or then Basajev and other islamistic terrorists will keep the war going for another 20 years.

                    Comment

                    • #70
                      No.

                      Russia already withdrew in the mid-90s from the area. The result was massive groundwork creation of terrorist cells in mainland Russia, which came and bit them in the butt later on.

                      The hasty comparisons you're making between the motives of Putin (trying to destroy terrorists) and motives of Johnson (trying to look good on history books, "I just can't be the architecht of surrender") just show of how little you know about the subject.


                      You're not replying to the right person, me thinks.

                      With regards to Beslan, I have only seen denials of responsibility from Maskhadov. Where/when did he admit to taking part in the planning of the attack in Beslan?


                      IIRC he even condemned them.


                      In any case, all of the occurances in Eastern europe are pure power clash of many interests.
                      urgh.NSFW

                      Comment

                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Serb
                        Just in case if anyone would, do you really wouldn't care about this?
                        Not really. I realize that there are a few people who are so proud of their ignorance that they feel the need to display it.
                        "And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
                        "Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
                        2004 Presidential Candidate
                        2008 Presidential Candidate (for what its worth)

                        Comment

                        • #72
                          I'm with Serb on one thing - Terrorists deserve being shot in the head. No negotiations.
                          "And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
                          "Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
                          2004 Presidential Candidate
                          2008 Presidential Candidate (for what its worth)

                          Comment

                          • #73
                            The problem is Russian definition of terrorists
                            "I realise I hold the key to freedom,
                            I cannot let my life be ruled by threads" The Web Frogs
                            Middle East!

                            Comment

                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Trajanus


                              Get your facts straight. Basayev is the one that wants an strong islamic state, and he's the one doing terrorist attacks. Maschadov was a negotiator and he has split up with Basayev for a long tiem already.
                              My understanding is that the Maskadov-Besayev relationship has been more complex than that in recent years.
                              "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

                              Comment

                              • #75
                                Originally posted by pchang
                                With regards to Beslan, I have only seen denials of responsibility from Maskhadov. Where/when did he admit to taking part in the planning of the attack in Beslan?
                                Where/when did Saddam admit to taking part in the palnning of the 911 attack? Where/when did Saddam admit that Iraq is developing his WMD? With regards to 911 and Iraqis WMD, I have only seen denials of responsibility from Saddam.
                                The difference is that Saddam spoke true, while Maskhadov (despite I've never heard any denials from him) lied.

                                Comment

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