Congressional GOP Are Scum!

[Az]

I have a strong feeling that socialism would be achieved at the point where humanity itself would be on a very strong transformation phase. In the farthest future, technology would lead humanity to transcendence of the human form, and power of thought. I am not of fan of it, since I adore the human form, and would simply want to pour much more resources of physical and intellectual capacity into the same frame, but this is where everything seems to be heading.

It would be a bizzare state that both ( contemporary ) communist and libertarian alike would adore.

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by pchang
You were misinformed about the civil war and slavery bit.

So you are telling me that the root of all of the problems that precipitated the Civil War was not the institution of slavery?

So what was the root cause then?

[Odin]

I think overproduction cause by ever-increasing efficiency created by new technology will make a revolution in how the market works inevitable. Uber-capitalist Neo-Liberals like Fukuyama who think we are ate the "End of History" need some mental help. I don't adhere strictly to the Marxist view of history (which I find too simplistic), but I do think the increase of efficency will make unemployment go up enough that it will make the traditional conception of the market untenable.

[Az]

Doesn't matter. It will simply switch slowly to a planned economy of the fascist style.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Agathon
But on a more serious note, surely you don't think that the transfer of power will be a peaceful affair, Che?

What else are we supposed to do with the fascists who fight?

Originally posted by Agathon


The right, when it comes to the crunch (i.e. when it really matters) have no respect for human life - it's built into their ideology, whether they know it or not.

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
And this differentiates the right from every other group that has a thirst for maintaining their power base in what way?

[Odin]

Originally posted by Azazel
Doesn't matter. It will simply switch slowly to a planned economy of the fascist style.

Pessimist.

[Az]

Oh no, I am not. I am sure everything will turn out just great, in the end. Not soon, though. Hell, even in a crazy transcendant universe with billions upon billions of consciousnesses, and animals would actually have feelings, I am sure you would be able to find enough humanist fetishists to inhabit an entire planet, and live there in the manner of startrek.

[pchang]

Originally posted by MOBIUS


So you are telling me that the root of all of the problems that precipitated the Civil War was not the institution of slavery?

So what was the root cause then?

The root cause was a fight over who should have more power, the federal government or the individual states.

[Agathon]

@ Ogie.

It's one thing to have a group of people engage in violence because they wish to end oppression, and another thing for a different group of people (meaning you and your ilk) to take up guns for selfish reasons.

On a serious note, I don't really like the idea of killing people, but if it is the only way to a good outcome, then it's justifiable. That's not the same as the right wing indifference to human life for selfish gain.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Agathon

On a serious note, I don't really like the idea of killing people, but if it is the only way to a good outcome, then it's justifiable.

So the ends justify the means? It can only backfire by pissing people off.

[pchang]

@ Aggie - the definer of "good" outcomes.

[Berzerker]

To be fair France's minimium wage is fairly modest and the main reason for the high unemploymnet is excessive regulation. It is very, very, very expensive & difficult to fire someone in that country so employers tend not to hire anyone unless it is totally unavoidable.

Anyone wanting to estimate the effect of a significantly higher NMW could look to the experience of France as an indicator. There, the minimum is set at roughly £4.10 per hour, equal to around 57% of male median pay. The OECD, in its evidence to the Low Pay Commission, reported that the high rate in France had produced a significant negative impact on youth employment, and in some cases on overall employment.

Don't know the currency equivelant but it sounds like France's isn't modest. Factor in lengthy paid vacations, etc, and I suspect the min wage is rather high in France. Btw, this blurb above was done a few years ago when the UK had a lower NMW than France so I don't know the current rate. And I'd call a NMW a regulation even if the French have found other ways to shoot themselves in the foot.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Agathon
But on a more serious note, surely you don't think that the transfer of power will be a peaceful affair, Che?

What else are we supposed to do with the fascists who fight?

No, I don't think the transfer of power will be peaceful. Obviously, when fighting in actual combat, some killing will be required. This is not something to which I look forward, cuz killing is bad. This doesn't mean we round people up and kill them for opposing the new society. When you talking about shooting, burning, or hanging people, you're talking about executions, not military combat. You can't build a society based on the sanctity of human life on a foundation of corpses.

Originally posted by Odin
Che and Aggie, revolution doesn't work, it just leads to resentment. The way to win is through grass-roots reforms, informing the public, and the ballot box.

Yeah, like that's ever worked. Maybe if we wanted to create a kinder, less corrupt capitalist society. The only to overthrow capitalism is revolution. It cannot be reformed away.

This doesn't mean the revolution has to be violent, but that's largely up to would be counter-revolutionaries. They likely will not respect the ballot should it turn against them. EVERY single time they have revolted and they've suceeded in destroying the would be reformers. I see no reason to think the future would be different. As for resentment, I don't care if the capitalists resent us. I resent them.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


No, I don't think the transfer of power will be peaceful. Obviously, when fighting in actual combat, some killing will be required. This is not something to which I look forward, cuz killing is bad. This doesn't mean we round people up and kill them for opposing the new society. When you talking about shooting, burning, or hanging people, you're talking about executions, not military combat. You can't build a society based on the sanctity of human life on a foundation of corpses.

[spittle ridden rant]
BUT ITS FOR TEH GREATER GOOD CAN'T YOU SEE THAT. LONG LIVE TEH REVOLUCION! Kill teh MAN!

[/end spittle ridden rant]

Aggie puts Che on his list of chief opponents to be bumped off

[Sava]

killing teh man