Rugby - Hands Off, Wattle!

[Havak]

He might as well pick his nose Finbar. Or pick his reputation back up off the floor.

I'll cover the differences between Lions 01 and 05 on the morrow.

[Havak]

Well at half time I should be getting excited at a Lions performance where the forwards are in complete control and the Kiwi's are living off scraps.

And you know I would be getting excited if only I didn't know that Manawatu are an NPC Division 2 side.

Why on earth is this team on the schedule when Canterbury are not?

[ravagon]

Blimey. 59-6. 3 Lions tries within about 6 minutes of the restart! Now what was somebody saying not so long ago about overconfidence?
Only applies to NZ teams of course.

[Edit: flippin' heck. Another one. Lions are scoring faster than I can type. Not that this is a tremendous achievement in itself ... ]

[Edit[2] : Now D'Arcy gets in on the action. The try list is going to look like the Lions line-up by the time it's over ... ]

[Havak]

It's a total mis match Ravagon - just like last Saturday!

Any backline is going to be rampant based on the excellent front foot ball they are getting all the time.

It's meaningless as the test side is not going to get the same quantity or quality of ball in their wildest dreams but it will at least hopefully put a rocket up the forwards and make them compete properly on Saturday - I hope.

Ollie Smith is having a great game apparently - outside bet for the 13 shirt Saturday perhaps?

*edit* This bit of the PR commetary made me smile:

"The locals decide to take it quickly and kick the ball back to the hungry Lions! Bizarre."

It's exactly what the Lions did last Saturday to the AB backline - and I used a word that was a little stronger than Bizarre!

[ravagon]

Hmmm. Nearly at the 3/4 ton now. This is getting ridiculous.
Manawatu were actually a capable side a couple (maybe three) decades ago.

I guess this is where the Lions went wrong in the beginning. Forget matchups against the Pumas - they should've gone up against the RoK or Japan perhaps?
Put a ton on the board and see what that does for their confidence.

Wonder if Clive will be coming out of this one a little more pleased?
I can just see the phrase 'confidence-builder' emerging from his gob at the press conference afterwards as though it were a part of his master plan all along ...

[Edit: Smith? He's only got one. Williams seems to have a hat trick. ]

[Edit[2]: Hat trick? Well counting has never been my strong suit ... ]

[Havak]

It's okay - there are two Williams playing so you were correct with hat trick for Shane I believe.

*edit* Well contrary to the commentary I was seeing Shane actually got all five 'Williams' tries. That'll cost him at the end of tour booze up.

Smith has been involved in a lot of the tries - he has made a lot of the breaks and the passes involved in setting them up. Good young player - great potential.

The game is pointless of course - confidence builder perhaps a little bit - but Manawatu have really played a strange gameplan - they haven't changed it at all and are still running straight at the Lions and trying little chips over their heads too - almost every play is resulting in a turnover.

I can't fault their effort but they just put huge pressure on the Lions near the brits tryline then spun a wild pass that missed and went to the deck - it's scooped up by O'Gara and kicked deep, the home defence is woefully late getting back and the Lions score again.

It's like a text book case of how not to tactically approach a game!

[ravagon]

Well, piffle!
Ton comes up in extra time.
Still, all-in-all I'd have to give the moral victory to the locals.
Afterall the real test of the game is in how many penalties are kicked, and they had two of them - unanswered!

Lucky me. Game finishes just in time to knock off.

[Havak]

I love your summary - great parody of Clive there.

They also won on yellow card countback!

*edit* A Saints fan has said to me "so what does this game prove - other than that they can shoot fish in a barrel?"

Nice summary - what was this fixture doing on the schedule?

Final score:

Manawatu 6 Lions 109

[finbar]

All well and good, an utterly meaningless fixture.

Now, and in no way related to that fixture, convince me, as you promised to do, that this Lions squad is better on paper than the mob that came here?

[Havak]

No Dai Young, Rob Henderson, Colin Charvis, Darren Morris, Austion Healey or Dan Luger.

How about that for starters?

But also no Jason Leonard or Jonno.

I actually agree with you that the core of forwards last time were mainly English and at their peak.

But the Celts were represented there and none of them were in form then resulting in Tom Smith (useless) and Darren Morris (at least two stone over weight) propping for political reasons and Charvis taking the field for the same concerns. Scott Quinell was given the number 8 shirt but wasn't fit at all. The only decent scrummie on tour was Dawson (eek!)

I honestly think therefore that with the huge exception of jonno he could pick a better pack than Sydney from what he has down there - but then I thought he had last weekend!

But the backline down there this time is far far better. There was little creativity in the 2001 outside of Austin. Robinson was an unknown then and enjoyed some success. But Dafyyd james was played on one of the wings - who you say? Exactly! Still fairly young he no longer figures for Wales - and for good reason. Matt Perry was fullback - solid defensively and a good enough lad but Lewsey, Thomas and Murphy offer far more going forward.

This time we have Williams, Murphy, Lewsey, Thomas and yes even Robinson to play in the back line - it is a bigger and better pool to pick from.

Am I convincing you at all - it's stream of consciousness stuff rather than a coherent run through the sides.

[kiwiman]

test broadcast

Finbar and others--should be able to catch live broadcast at[URL=http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz] of remaining Lions tests. -Kiwiman

[finbar]

Thanks for that, kiwiman. I'll check it out. If it's a goer, I'll be thrilled.

Sorry, Havak, you haven't entirely convinced me. Part of the problem, of course, is the magnitude of J****. He was worth a couple of players, probably more. Sure, the Lugers of the world aren't missed, but they had Neil Back probably in his prime, and Robinson, then a new boy, was a dazzler. He's since been worked out (as well as, perhaps, lost confidence). BTW, who were the locks on that tour apart from J****?

Anyway, perhaps my view is coloured by the fact that, this year, I saw just about all of the 6-Nations - we didn't have access to NH matches prior to the Lions tour here - and I didn't see anything in the 6-Nations that impressed me. (With the proviso that the Taffys remain an unknown quantity. They beat what they had to beat but it wasn't very crash hot) So my 6-Nations impression has skewed my view of this mob. Along with Clive's obviously biased selections.

Speaking of Clive, he has now taken to using video replays of the tackle to pillory Tana Umaga. Shades of his efforts to influence the refs over Australia's so-called decoy runners a couple of years ago. It truly is despicable. The matter was dealt with by the judiciary. (Not forgetting that the Lions' management failed to take the appropriate action in time!) If Clive and the Lions' management have a problem with the the judicial outcome, let them take the matter through channels with the IRB. What's going on now amounts to public character assassination. Note carefully that Umaga is their target. There has been next to no mention of the hooker. It's no accident of timing that the despicable Alastair Campbell has also entererd the verbal fray. His grubby fingerprints are all over this. Patently obviously, Clive is (a) trying to shift the focus from his team's crap performance; and (b) motivate his players. Well, I'm no lawyer, but I suspect they're sailing pretty close to defamation. If you are acting on Campbell's advice, Clive, and I have no doubt you are, be careful. Lie down with dogs, you will catch fleas.

[Havak]

Well I’m still getting over the shock of Ravagon using the word piffle – I always suspected he was really English.

It shows how easy it is to get thing wrong from non visual commentary – Manawatu were not chipping at all. What they were doing was losing the ball six feet in the air and ten feet forward in every contact.

Hard to see what games like this do for either side to be honest…

BTW, who were the locks on that tour apart from J****?

From memory Danny Grewcock played the tests – Irish duo Malcolm O’Kelly (injured early this time) and Jeremy Davidson (successful 97 Lion, now retired I believe) were there and the set was completed by Scot Murray (you can guess his nationality from his name).

So my 6-Nations impression has skewed my view of this mob. Along with Clive's obviously biased selections.

Fair enough point with the exception of the selections where he picked a team for a gameplan and they failed to deliver. The 6 nations was poor this year, the poorest in a decade for me personally. This tour is badly timed in terms of the health of UK rugby but even accepting that we should be more competitive with the ABs than we have been.

Simply put our season needs sorting – less rugby played and the 6N in a block at the end of season totally separate to all club games. Trouble is the French have blocked all suggestions to this effect consistently because their championship insanely runs into June!

There’s no hiding place Saturday – as many welsh as English in the line up and completed by Irish lads. The Celts get their chance – and lose bragging rights for ever if they lose.

Corry made the bench by the way – and so he should. Back dropped totally – unfair on a guy whose tight five did not assist him. Moody is certainly as good as player as McCaw – only he is a blindside not openside so Richie has another field day ahead if he survives the contact with Lewis (and he may not – Lewis is almost insanely brave on the pitch – fairly so before you ask. He puts his body on the line every time and is as solid as a bull).

Jonny at fly half is controversial still of course.

Most controversial for me is the ommission of Cusiter for that **** Dawson on the bench.

It truly is despicable.

Well I think that’s a bit strong myself although I fully believe you are right it is to ‘deflect and motivate’.

Am I right in reading through the lines that your fundamental argument is that because the time limit was exceeded, and simply because Clive is asking for it, that no case should be answered? I disagree. I’m not out for Tana’s blood – I think he is actually a nice guy with great humility for such a huge talent. He did get it wrong though and part of being a man is facing mistakes - some kind of apology would be nice. Silence, and the entire AB camp saying ‘innocent’ every five seconds is just not acceptable. Typically NZ – who never admit anything or discipline their own people properly it would seem – but not acceptable. Innocent? How so? He made the ‘tackle’ didn’t he? The Subject of the tackle was badly injured as a direct consequent of an unsafe tackle. Innocent how exactly? You want to discuss spin – look at the AB camp!

It’s also fine for that small hooker to stick his hands in someone’s mouth and pull them away from play by their cheek flesh (only for the opponent to then be banned for biting that hand) of course – he was English not kiwi after all. Of course Danny should have been banned for biting that hand – it’s disgusting psychotic behaviour. Obviously he should have let his cheek be ripped open and ‘taken the bullet’. And Tana should probably have been disciplined for that lethal tackle – reckless and highly dangerous. Forget Clive and his spin w****** as this is about the tackle not the universal SH dislike of Clive.

But I forget – the ABs are beyond reproach. Whiter than white so to speak. Shame that having Ali Williams in the side totally blows that myth eh?

*edit* I want to clarify my position on violent play in case Ravagon dislikes my flippancy above about the finger kisser.

Players who put their fingers in other players eyes should never play again.

Players who stand on peoples head should never play again.

Players who bite poeple on the pitch should never play again (and should probably be sectioned).

Players who stick their fingers 'inadvertently' in other players mouths should be banned for several months and then given IQ tests to discover just how dumb they are and find out therefore if it is safe to let them on a pitch again!