Rugby - Hands Off, Wattle!

[finbar]

Spooky how Tamerlin haunts our subconscious, isn't it?

[finbar]

Sssssshhhhhhh! Listen closely. The niggling sound you hear is Havak's conscience after he voted Tory this morning.

[Havak]

You think?

I’m working class for many reasons – not least because I work – but pork pies are not a huge factor (although they were originally conceived as a meal on the go for agricultural workers so they do fit the charge).

He said, tucking his Tory blue rosette in his desk drawer.

I smiled kindly and showed my electoral roll number to the young man wearing the blue rosette this morning – then went inside and slid the proverbial knife betwixt his masters shoulder blades as per normal. Thoroughly enjoyable.

Our hostage apparently said only recently that he hoped to make his money and get out in one piece.

My own personal take is that life is more important than money. I hope this chap survives and learns that lesson.

So how long will Mr Evans stay at Quins? Will he be pushed? Or does he own too much of the place?

If he does have a financial stake it certainly isn’t a completely controlling one – as with all UK clubs nailing ownership percentages down is extremely hard. I suspect he will survive for the start of next season. God help him if it starts going wrong on the pitch early on.

Apart from that, the signings are mainly fringe players

Perhaps for the best – their raison d’etre is to bring on fringe players and thereby increase Wallaby reserve strengths isn’t it?

No, Hurricanes have had a good couple of seasons.

Last season it looks like only one team finished below them?

The Blues are all over the place this season like the proverbial mad woman's breakfast

I have always loved that expression!

Do you think they have perhaps been too hasty to bench Carlos and drive him to the rugby hell that is Saints?

The Sharks, Cats, and, since Krige's departure, the Stormers, can be embarrassingly inept.

Leaving the Bulls to carry the flag? I must admit it doesn’t look good for them – they still cannot hold their best players in the country.

That said Krige was a huge disappointment at Saints.

I presume it's a similar situation to here in the US - one party loves cheap 3rd-world labour (Republicans) and the other party hopes to make voters out of illegal aliens (Democrats).

Pretty similar situation Caligastia yes – generalising Tories and business owners love economic immigrants who pretty much all work for minimum wage. Labour and Lib Dems tend to believe they are natural future voters for them.

Its complicated a tad by the fact we have EC economic immigration – large number of mainly minimum wage imports who will never ever be voters in UK elections. EC economic immigration therefore only really tends to serve Tory purposes – so all their talk of tightening immigration is only referring to illegal immigrants (again this is a significant problem but the numbers pale by comparison to legal EC immigration).

I am concerned about EC economic immigration myself – it appears to me that they are getting preferential treatment for housing in the county right now and that would not make me happy. Certainly the county is being swamped with Eastern Europeans since the EC expanded last year. But before I go off pre-emptively making final judgements I’m checking the facts on this by making an FOI request to the council for detailed figures.

I hear there are entire neighbourhoods that are now no-go areas for whites

This is true – though I can take you to areas that are pretty much no go for ethnic minorities too. And areas that are no go for anyone non resident in them. I’ve heard anecdotal evidence of all sorts of things – but I think all modern countries suffer from it. Colour does not bother me to be honest – but integration into British culture does so I like your point on diversity. Cultural integration can benefit us – but the British identity must not be totally lost in the process. This is another level where the Eastern European immigration bothers me – large numbers far too quickly from a totally disparate culture.

Havak, I can try to force him to sit in front of a computer on next week end when I go to Toulouse (if I can find him between a rugby match and a third half-time).

Many thanks for the offer but I wouldn’t want to trouble you – or distract you from the rugby.

I’m kind of relieved he is distracted to be honest – given how poor Tigers were on the day.

The Premiership awards of the season were held last night. Tigers did rather well:

Tigers and England number eight Corry was named player of the season, while centre Ollie Smith won the Land Rover Discovery of the Season Award.
And Leicester chief Wells headed the best Director of Rugby category.

Martin Johnson, who retires at the end of the season, received the Zurich Champion Award for his "significant and long-lasting contribution" to the game.
Amusingly England hooker Steve Thompson won the Powergen Community player of the season award for his commitment to community work and dedication to the sport at several different levels. I read this as meaning he frequented local pubs and restaurants?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
I’m working class for many reasons – not least because I work – but pork pies are not a huge factor (although they were originally conceived as a meal on the go for agricultural workers so they do fit the charge).

Did I say pork pies? I meant bitter.

I smiled kindly and showed my electoral roll number to the young man wearing the blue rosette this morning – then went inside and slid the proverbial knife betwixt his masters shoulder blades as per normal. Thoroughly enjoyable.

I've done the same thing to every one of our Tory leaders since my first ever vote. It's a nice feeling, even if, much more often than not, the b*astards have won!

I was reading a piece on the Brown -v- Blair situation. Brown sounds like a very interesting chap.

My own personal take is that life is more important than money.

Me too. We buried a couple of our friends only in their 50s last year. Hence Italy for two years. Speaking of which, this morning, we fronted the Italian consulate here in Sydney to apply for our elective residency visas. We non-EUs need them to stay in Italy more than 3 months! Amongst other things, we had to produce fiscal evidence that we could support ourselves for two years in Italy without working. Anyway, we got the visas, so, this time in three weeks' time, the Cathay aircraft should be just taking off for Honkers!

If he does have a financial stake it certainly isn’t a completely controlling one – as with all UK clubs nailing ownership percentages down is extremely hard. I suspect he will survive for the start of next season. God help him if it starts going wrong on the pitch early on.

I read something about Greenwood saying he was there for the long haul. They'd be too good for the oppo in second division, wouldn't they?

Perhaps for the best – their raison d’etre is to bring on fringe players and thereby increase Wallaby reserve strengths isn’t it?

In theory. As I say, I'm not convinced we have the depth.

Last season it looks like only one team finished below them?

Was it last season? Must have been the season before that they made the finals. That was when their pack was very effective. Combined with a midfield led by Umaga, they were impressive. The pack has since gone backwards.

Do you think they have perhaps been too hasty to bench Carlos and drive him to the rugby hell that is Saints?

I've missed some of their games so I don't know the whole story. But from what I have seen, his replacement is only solid. There has been very little Blues magic, and with the likes of Rokococo and Howlett at the back, you'd expect some magic. (Though Howlett has been down on form) Carlos' tricks worked in S12, if not in Tests, so perhaps they were too hasty. OTOH, they probably knew he was leaving at the end of the season anyway. A pragmatic decision was possibly made.

Leaving the Bulls to carry the flag? I must admit it doesn’t look good for them – they still cannot hold their best players in the country.

The Bulls have played some very good rugby this season. They've found a link between their massive (and quite mobile) pack and some very quick backs.

That said Krige was a huge disappointment at Saints.

In some ways a surprise, in some ways not. I think he's probably at his best playing either for his country or with his countrymen. A bit of a patriot, perhaps.

I’m kind of relieved he is distracted to be honest – given how poor Tigers were on the day.

He's biding his time. Storing it up.

Land Rover Discovery of the Season Award.

You mean he didn't leak crossing streams?

Martin Johnson, who retires at the end of the season, received the Zurich Champion Award for his "significant and long-lasting contribution" to the game.

Fair enough too. He deserves that and more.

Amusingly England hooker Steve Thompson won the Powergen Community player of the season award for his commitment to community work and dedication to the sport at several different levels. I read this as meaning he frequented local pubs and restaurants?

Presumably he didn't make the short list for the Jenny Craig Award.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
Its complicated a tad by the fact we have EC economic immigration – large number of mainly minimum wage imports who will never ever be voters in UK elections. EC economic immigration therefore only really tends to serve Tory purposes – so all their talk of tightening immigration is only referring to illegal immigrants (again this is a significant problem but the numbers pale by comparison to legal EC immigration).

Here in the US big businesses love illegals because they can pay them less than minimum wage. Bush must be getting kickbacks from his big business buddies because he seems to be doing everything in his power to keep the flow of illegals going.

I am concerned about EC economic immigration myself – it appears to me that they are getting preferential treatment for housing in the county right now and that would not make me happy. Certainly the county is being swamped with Eastern Europeans since the EC expanded last year. But before I go off pre-emptively making final judgements I’m checking the facts on this by making an FOI request to the council for detailed figures.

Speaking of preferential treatment...there are US states where illegal aliens are only required to pay in-state tuition fees, while legal citizens from out of state must pay out of state fees! Sheer lunacy!

This is true – though I can take you to areas that are pretty much no go for ethnic minorities too. And areas that are no go for anyone non resident in them. I’ve heard anecdotal evidence of all sorts of things – but I think all modern countries suffer from it. Colour does not bother me to be honest – but integration into British culture does so I like your point on diversity. Cultural integration can benefit us – but the British identity must not be totally lost in the process. This is another level where the Eastern European immigration bothers me – large numbers far too quickly from a totally disparate culture.

Whether colour, race or ethnicity bothers us or not, we still need to recognise that it bothers a lot of other people. And being uncomfortable with people of other ethnicities is not necessarily a moral failing. I think it is something that is, to different extents, inherent in all of us. It makes sense, therefore, to maintain some degree of homogeneity. The Eastern European influx is problematic on a cultural level, but the influx of non-european ethnicities is a problem on a cultural and a racial level. Many years down the road, the Eastern Europeans may have assimilated, but the non-european ethnicities will always be visibly different from native Britons, and will therefore always be seperate to some extent. Forcing different ethnicities together and telling them to get along because they are "diverse" is just wishful thinking. Human nature will ultimately prevail, and groups will form along racial lines.

[finbar]

Back on topic. I wonder if Havak's voting method of writing "J****" at the bottom of the ballot paper, drawing a little box beside it and inserting a "1" into the little box, would be declared an informal vote. If the polling booth were within a drunken fan's roar of Welford Road, probably not.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by finbar
Sssssshhhhhhh! Listen closely. The niggling sound you hear is Havak's conscience after he voted Tory this morning.

Is that what that was? Rattling my windows all night and keeping me from getting all but a wink of sleep!
Oh well. In spite of Havaks defection to the Tories (asuming of course that he was ever anything but) it looks as though Tony still has a sizable majority.
~80 seats according to a poll I saw earlier.

Land Rover discovery of the season award?
Do they actually give the guy a Land Rover or is that just some cheap fancy sponsorship title?

[Havak]

I swear you must have a camera following me sometimes – how did you know I had voted for Jonno?

So four more years it is –with a reduced but still extremely workable majority. But he will have to be more responsive to public opinion now.

What is most amusing is both other party leaders claiming some kind of moral victory. Now with the seats declared the approximate position is this

Labour 350
Conservative 200
Lib Dem 60

That is gains of around 40 and 12 respectively for the blues and golds. But it means if all the minor parties voted with both of them every time Labour still have a commanding commons majority.

Howard is realistically claiming it’s a “real advance towards our recovery” but Kennedy is priceless as he ludicrously claims that he sees a "new challenge" ahead as the UK enters an era of ‘real three-party politics’. Dear Charles – it isn’t a hung parliament so your sixty seats don’t matter.

So I can return to my working class pork pies and bitter confident in the knowledge that we don’t have to face the Tories again fro at least two to three leaders in their future (maybe as long as four years).

Now Gordon Brown – I would not say he is interesting particularly but he is more old school Labour. The again his tenure as Chancellor has directly led to a country where youngsters are locked out the housing market so a big black mark on him for that. It’s unlikely I would vote for him – don’t want another Scot as PM (Tony is Scottish of course – he doesn’t shout about it much).

It's a nice feeling, even if, much more often than not, the b*astards have won!

Sometimes it is the only thing that lets one cope with the wrong side winning?

We non-EUs need them to stay in Italy more than 3 months!

Join the EC Finbar – every other Tom, Dick and Harry country is after all. And the more that do the quicker we can leave and let France and Germany pick up the bill for once.

The best bit of advice I ever got (although it was from the welcher – remember him?) was if you want to do something do it now – for you don’t know what your future will bring and you may not be fit enough to do it. I’m sure you have made a good call in going to Italy. As we get older our impending mortality is brought home to us all the more by friends passing away in an untimely fashioned – go for it whilst you can!

They'd be too good for the oppo in second division, wouldn't they?

Right now? Yes. But that squad will not stay together. By being relegated the TV money dries up – this means a black hole of several million pounds in next years budget. It is not out of the question that they will go bust!

I’m not rising to the crossing streams crack – and I will need you to remind me about the Jenny Craig award Finbar!

Fair enough too. He deserves that and more.

Interestingly I watched the coverage of the awards last night – the two Sky TV pundits picked a Premiership XV of the season – no Jonno, no ollie and no Corry (the winners of all the playing awards!). Bizarre team if I thought the names would resonate at all I would list it. To give a flavour of it one of the wingers was from London Irish – that’s right the team with the record for least tries this season by a country mile!

Here in the US big businesses love illegals because they can pay them less than minimum wage

That also happens here – textile factories in Leicester are frequently found to be using illegals. Strangely most of Leicester’s textile factories are owned by ethnic minorities (the city being one of the UK’s most mutli-cultural).

Immigration is reaching crisis point now most of Eastern Europe can just up sticks and come here legally though. We will have to review our policy on the whole issue.

Speaking of preferential treatment...there are US states where illegal aliens are only required to pay in-state tuition fees, while legal citizens from out of state must pay out of state fees! Sheer lunacy!

That’s the trouble with a Federal system I think? It’s ridiculous that immigration is in any way a state issue – it should be solely a national one with legislation set by Federal government.

Forcing different ethnicities together and telling them to get along because they are "diverse" is just wishful thinking. Human nature will ultimately prevail, and groups will form along racial lines.

I’m really not comfortable with addressing this in terms of colour – it’s not the key. In may ways the ‘white’ Polish immigrants of 1939 have integrated less than the ‘colured’ Asians from the 1960s – but all their kids and grandkids are increasingly British and this will continue through the generations.

I’m not against immigration per se – it’s the current huge volume that concerns me as it is simply too many for effective integration to ever occur. If you allow in very large communities for an extended period they are going to live as those communities – that is human nature too.

I don’t have any answers – but I do know that UKIP and Veritas’s “throw out the foreigners” approach is a step towards facism that I personally didn’t want to take.

[Havak]

It's cheap fancy sponsorship title Ravagon. It used to be simply "young player of the season".

The majority is currently forecast at being 66 - that means 66 seats more than all the other parties added together. It means all but the most controversial legislation will be passed still in essence.

The day I vote Tory is the day I will cheer on the ABs against England.

[LDiCesare]

The day I vote Tory is the day I will cheer on the ABs against England.

Let's ask the Rugby Union to plan a match against New Zealand on the same day as an English election then.

[Havak]

Perhaps if I said the day I vote Tory is the day the French stop drinking wine it gives a better idea of the probabilties involved?

Super news today that Michael Howard is stepping down as their leader. That leaves almost no one with a prominent public profile or experience of government to stand as their leader. Great stuff.

[LDiCesare]

Perhaps if I said the day I vote Tory is the day the French stop drinking wine it gives a better idea of the probabilties involved

ok, I'm beaten. I am not going to compute the probability that all the wine in France gets teleported to alpha Centauri by a random tunnel effect.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
That’s the trouble with a Federal system I think? It’s ridiculous that immigration is in any way a state issue – it should be solely a national one with legislation set by Federal government.

Yes, the trouble is that the federal government doesn't want to do its job, so that forces the individual states into doing something about it.

I’m really not comfortable with addressing this in terms of colour – it’s not the key. In may ways the ‘white’ Polish immigrants of 1939 have integrated less than the ‘colured’ Asians from the 1960s – but all their kids and grandkids are increasingly British and this will continue through the generations.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "British". When I picture a "british" person, I see a white person. Obviously there are other components to being "British", but ethnicity is definitely one of them IMO.

I’m not against immigration per se – it’s the current huge volume that concerns me as it is simply too many for effective integration to ever occur. If you allow in very large communities for an extended period they are going to live as those communities – that is human nature too.

Yep. There are now large communities in the US in which you cannot get around without speaking spanish. That's not a good thing IMO. A common language is critical if you want different groups to get along with one another.

I don’t have any answers – but I do know that UKIP and Veritas’s “throw out the foreigners” approach is a step towards facism that I personally didn’t want to take.

It depends if the foreigners are legal or not. Britain should allow those living there legally to stay, obviously, but kick out the illegals.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar
Spooky how Tamerlin haunts our subconscious, isn't it?

I don't know who proposed to force me to sit in front of my computer for a week but I can promise him a tough time doing do.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Havak

Perhaps if I said the day I vote Tory is the day the French stop drinking wine it gives a better idea of the probabilties involved?

So what you're really saying is that it's nowhere near as improbable as the probability that finbar will get homesick and cut short his visit to Italy?

[Mmmm. Perhaps some probabilities are better left uncalculated ... ]

Somewhere close to the probability of having ones improbability drive melt down into custard then I imagine?