Rugby - Hands Off, Wattle!

[finbar]

Not really. He's grateful for small mercies these days.

[Havak]

Methinks our Havak may have a wee bit of a hangover ...

Guilty. Courvoisier in the hip flask.

As you might imagine I loved seeing Dayglo and his boys made to look ordinary. Even if it is frustrating Tigers could not play like that the week before. There was a different level of intensity to the game at Walkers – less nerves and more focus. Having said that Toulouse are a far better outfit than Wasps anyway IMHO.

Dayglo and Dawson badgered the ref all game – but I will give Lawrence a little respect as he clapped Henry Tuilagi as he was taken of with a broken leg and he and his squad remained on the pitch for the whole 30 minute ‘farewell to Jonno, Backy and Wellsy’ circus at the end.

On which note – Martin just about managed to hold it together on the microphone – but only just.

And one of them managed to burn himself. We Frenchmen were saying to each others that these rosbiffs are decidedly silly.

Yes I have seen some very nasty burns from it. I’m happy to stick with the drinking games myself – then again I have seen broken limbs occur in some of those too. In essence you are totally right – rosbiff rugger players are decidedly silly.

One flanker didn't do the last part, and ended the day with more alcohol than blood in the veins, and a really nice headache on the day after.

By purging it you would have been on a very a serious charge with most tours I have been on. As sensible as it was.

We allow minor flaws in a leader, so that's all right.

How do you feel about major flaws?

Obviously an indictment of the Tories' impotence and incompetence.

Howard has less credibility than Blair – and it’s killing him. I think I pointed out two of his previous roles in government – Local Government minister under Thatcher and Home Secretary under Major. In both posts he over saw some hugely unpopular legislation (most notably the Poll tax). No one who remembers him in Government will ever easily trust him or what he says – a real problem if you want to be PM.

If either the Brits or the Australians had (perish the thought) lost any troops in numbers, I think Blair and (our) Howard might be far less comfortable than they are.

Interesting timing – a young Coldstream guard was killed over the weekend and his widow has publicly gone for Blair’s jugular (on a day where Labours poll lead increased slightly!). He is the 87th casualty there (not all battle casualties) but with only 8000 personnel there at any point I would imagine our percentage must be similar to US forces.

Iraq is an issue that refuses to go away – I suspect it will influence things on Thursday. I have to say I still expect Blair to be returned with a reduced majority.

I suspect that the Brit voting population is, on the whole, with some obvious exceptions, a bit more sophisticated. And comfortable with their lot, to boot.

I’d like to think you are right – but I fear my countrymen have a normally suppressed streak of Xenophobia a mile wide. It’s more fertile ground for the Tories than calling Blair a liar I think – most people I have spoken to find that reeks of hypocrisy from ‘Poll tax is fair’ Howard.

but I don't think anyone would want to see it before each and every game ...

I never want to see it – but I dislike the fact they are prevented from doing it.

Get your act together and make up your own haka you lazy plonker and stop taking the easy way out trying to abolish ours!

Abolish? Well it probably wouldn’t actually make me cry if that unhappy event were to come to pass, but what I actually want is for it’s protected status to be removed. NZ and the rest of North Auckland shouldn’t be the only ones allowed pre-match indulgences and no one else should be legislated to have to stand watching something they don’t necessarily want to.

And no the all whites don’t have a haka – as you are aware most Pommy rugger traditions are around the social aspects of the game.

Mind you I don’t think I’ll find another sport thanks – my own club was founded before anyone had pulled on the black (or white) shirt after all.

Perhaps you could explain his thinking to me, Havak.

We have to put it down to the emotions of the day if we wish to be charitable. Evans sometimes runs his mouth off like this. Putting aside the arguments for relegation the simple fact is all clubs knew that there would be relegation at the start of the season. ERP voted on and accepted that. Bleating now is absolutely useless.

All of this on the back of the fact that the late Sale try that relegated them kept Saints up (which was not my prefered result!).

And the ‘current form’ comment is plain daft I agree. Quins lost their last two games = how can they be ‘on form’?

I think the bottom line is that Worcester deserved to stay up on their on field showings. Only Tigers stuffed them twice and they took some big scalps (wasps). They fully vindicated the idea of promotion for me – and were a more exciting side to watch than either Quins or Irish (who I think set the record for the least number of tries scored in the season).

There are clubs who pitch for a closed shop every year – Quins were one, Newcastle are another and Saracens have been known to as have Northampton. Strangely all of them have been almost constantly involved at the bottom. Sarries did rather better this year – and have been strangely quiet on the issue. Tigers fans have always joked that once those four are all relegated we should do it so they can never come back in – and see what they say about it then.

I’ve mentioned before that the English are on the whole very keen on relegation and promotion. It’s that spirit of rewarding the little guy and keeping big underperformers from getting complacent.

Super 12 is a different beast – it was assembled from scratch even if the NZ franchises were assembled on top of existing clubs. And to be honest I don't think it helps that the poorer Bok and Kiwi franchises know they are safe for another round of cash however they do on the field?

In England the clubs have long histories and the idea of arbitrarily saying “no one else may join the current 12” just is not very popular. There are big names from years back in the lower leagues – witness Bristol returning this year.

I suspect ring fencing will arrive at some point (too many vested interests in the game now) - and knowing my luck just after Tigers get relegated - but I'll argue against it to the end.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Interesting timing – a young Coldstream guard was killed over the weekend and his widow has publicly gone for Blair’s jugular (on a day where Labours poll lead increased slightly!). He is the 87th casualty there (not all battle casualties) but with only 8000 personnel there at any point I would imagine our percentage must be similar to US forces.

Iraq is an issue that refuses to go away – I suspect it will influence things on Thursday. I have to say I still expect Blair to be returned with a reduced majority.

Our first national - an engineer working over there - has just been kidnapped. It had to happen.

I'd've thought the ones to gain from any backlash against Blair and the war would be the Lib Dems or whatever they're called these days? They seem to be much better organised than our so-called alternative parties who self-destruct at the drop of a hint of an internal power struggle.

We have to put it down to the emotions of the day if we wish to be charitable. Evans sometimes runs his mouth off like this. Putting aside the arguments for relegation the simple fact is all clubs knew that there would be relegation at the start of the season. ERP voted on and accepted that. Bleating now is absolutely useless.

After I posed those questions, I found an article on the BBC site about him. He's a squire-type? And off-loaded some talented players without replacing them, while spending a sh*tload on the ground?

I’ve mentioned before that the English are on the whole very keen on relegation and promotion. It’s that spirit of rewarding the little guy and keeping big underperformers from getting complacent.

It's a perfectly legitimate and very good system - stimulating competition, warding off complacency - providing there's enough player and managerial talent to support it. The downside is a team rising and falling again almost immediately. As happens in s*****.

Super 12 is a different beast – it was assembled from scratch even if the NZ franchises were assembled on top of existing clubs. And to be honest I don't think it helps that the poorer Bok and Kiwi franchises know they are safe for another round of cash however they do on the field?

It's one of the downsides of S12. There are perennial easybeats. I've never been certain of the talent pool needed to man 14 teams. I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.

I suspect ring fencing will arrive at some point (too many vested interests in the game now) - and knowing my luck just after Tigers get relegated - but I'll argue against it to the end.

As you should. It just makes for an elitist group.

[Havak]

Has the Haka been banned yet?

They seem to be much better organised than our so-called alternative parties who self-destruct at the drop of a hint of an internal power struggle.

They are well organised, disciplined and cohesive beyond the dream of the Tories right now and their policies are aimed directly at disenchanted Labour voters. They are also the only major party standing on an anti-war platform. And yet that doubt remains in the public consciousness – they are habitual trend followers and could easily swing rapidly to the right if they sense a prevailing wind that way. There’s a question mark over trusting them for me.

A Times/Populus tracker poll published yesterday puts Labour on 41%, the Conservatives on 27% and the Lib Dems on 23%. This would return another landslide for President Blair. The reality is this is unlikely to be mapped to all the key marginals – but it still seems likely we will have four more years of Tony with a comfortable majority. I’ll be voting before work tomorrow so I had better get my thinking cap on.

Sorry to hear about the hostage – their chances are not good. I do not understand why civilians are still going there to be honest – you couldn’t pay me enough to consider it.

He's a squire-type? And off-loaded some talented players without replacing them, while spending a sh*tload on the ground?

It’s an accusation that has been levelled at him because of the way he behaves – autocratically and gathering power unto himself. He joined the club in a management role but gathered power until he was made Chief Executive and then took over the coaching as well. He certainly pushed development of the ground over developing the squad. And he did let players go last June that have done very well elsewhere – the two that have done best would be Pat Sanderson (now skipper of Worcester) and Scott Bemand (at Tigers understudying Ellis). Bemand was told by Evans he was not good enough for the top flight but whoever nurtured him at Tigers proved that wrong – he is sufficiently good to keep Ellis on his toes (and a lot better than So'oialo who wore the nine shirt for Quins this season).

The downside is a team rising and falling again almost immediately. As happens in s*****.

And this will happen again I am sure. I think Bristol might make the transition successfully though.

I've never been certain of the talent pool needed to man 14 teams. I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.

It would be disastrous for the tournament if the current four annual easy-beats (perming any four from eight on a rolling basis) simply grows to six. Perth seem to be recruiting well however – though the worry there is that it may lower the achievement of all the Aussie franchises?

Looking at the table I am left wondering who thought the Boks could stand another franchise? And aren’t both Hurricanes and Highlanders in very unfamiliar territory above the Blues? I thought Hurricanes in particular liked to help a Bok side hold up the table most years?

As you should. It just makes for an elitist group.

True. And frighteningly one with Rob Andrew on the inside.

Did Tamerlin ever appear to laud his team? You would think he could stop being distracted for just five minutes?

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Havak
Has the Haka been banned yet?

[Edit: Here's an idea for you. If the English can't think up an alternative on their own perhaps one should be provided for them? If the tea party is out and the Aussies already have their little singalong then perhaps a short rendition of the comedic stylings of Lawrence Dallaglio? I doubt English rugby would ever be the same again ... ]

[Havak]

'Short' is definitely the operative word there!

How about the greatest hits on Lawrence being played directly before each match?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by LDiCesare
Mmm... Considering some of the pre match dances I saw in France, I'm not sure they would be deemed politically correct.

You've caught the Finbar "Mmm" habit!

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
And yet that doubt remains in the public consciousness – they are habitual trend followers and could easily swing rapidly to the right if they sense a prevailing wind that way. There’s a question mark over trusting them for me.

Yes, that's always a problem with some of those alternatives who sniff the wind for what's popular. Voters see through them.

I’ll be voting before work tomorrow so I had better get my thinking cap on.

He said, tucking his Tory blue rosette in his desk drawer.

Sorry to hear about the hostage – their chances are not good. I do not understand why civilians are still going there to be honest – you couldn’t pay me enough to consider it.

They see it differently. They think the oodles of money to be made warrants the risk. Our hostage apparently said only recently that he hoped to make his money and get out in one piece.

So how long will Mr Evans stay at Quins? Will he be pushed? Or does he own too much of the place?

It would be disastrous for the tournament if the current four annual easy-beats (perming any four from eight on a rolling basis) simply grows to six. Perth seem to be recruiting well however – though the worry there is that it may lower the achievement of all the Aussie franchises?

Not to any real degree. They've only really snaffled two big guns - Nathan Sharp from Reds and #10 Lachie McKay from Waratahs. Reds have at least one young, very highly promising lock already in the team. Sharp's experience will be a huge loss in a young team, but his skill will be replaced. McKay, in the long term, is probably the bigger loss for his potential. He was going to be the answer to NSW's age-old #10 problem. Brendan Cannon is towards the end of his career. If they end up with Henjak and Rathbone, though, the Brumbies will have suffered.

Apart from that, the signings are mainly fringe players. Though, in the case of the Reds fringe hooker they've signed, it's said by some good judges that he's the best hooker in Queensland by a mile and should have been a fixture in the team. An indictment of the current coach, and the reason why he left for Perth.

Looking at the table I am left wondering who thought the Boks could stand another franchise? And aren’t both Hurricanes and Highlanders in very unfamiliar territory above the Blues? I thought Hurricanes in particular liked to help a Bok side hold up the table most years?

No, Hurricanes have had a good couple of seasons. Either last year, or maybe the year before, they made the finals. Wonderful midfield and very good out wide. Their pack isn't as good as it was and lets them down. The Highlanders are the big surprise this year. They lost a lot of players and were expected to fail but they've been very strong. Probably playing above themselves but they have the talent to finish mid-table. The Blues are all over the place this season like the proverbial mad woman's breakfast. Winning well, then getting thumped. With the talent in that team, I don't know what's going on.

The Boks' extra franchise is the scary thing. The Sharks, Cats, and, since Krige's departure, the Stormers, can be embarrassingly inept. If there any spare, unsigned, talented players over there, you'd reckon one of the existing franchises would have grabbed them. They got the extra franchise because we wanted one. It was politics. And I fear it will come back and bite the competition.

Did Tamerlin ever appear to laud his team? You would think he could stop being distracted for just five minutes?

Nuh. Whatever's distracting him, it's obviously mighty powerful!

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
I’d like to think you are right – but I fear my countrymen have a normally suppressed streak of Xenophobia a mile wide. It’s more fertile ground for the Tories than calling Blair a liar I think – most people I have spoken to find that reeks of hypocrisy from ‘Poll tax is fair’ Howard.

I presume you're referring to the immigration issue? The Tories probably can't be trusted any more than Labour to fix that problem. I presume it's a similar situation to here in the US - one party loves cheap 3rd-world labour (Republicans) and the other party hopes to make voters out of illegal aliens (Democrats).

To be honest I think a modest helping of xenophobia is a good thing. It's not like Britain has nothing to fear from outsiders. I hear there are entire neighbourhoods that are now no-go areas for whites. If you keep letting floods of non-whites in you'll be well on the way to a US-style racial spoils system (racial preferences).

Don't get me wrong, I think it's good to have a bit of ethnic diversity, but there's good diversity and bad diversity. Here in the US they seem to think any old diversity will do, even if it means importing groups of people who have no idea of how to live in a western society. Also, I think it's in the interests of any country to maintain an ethnic majority. I would never want to live in a country that was majority non-white, simply because racism is inherent in everyone and I don't want to be racially discriminated against. It's bad enough having white liberals promote racial preferences for other races, so I shudder to think what it would be like if other races were in charge.

Ok, go ahead and lambast me for being racist now.

[Havak]

Why would I do that? You make some very interesting points and had I more time I would address them in detail – but with apologies to yourself and Finbar I will have to pick things up tomorrow.

I am happy to give my take on one thing Finbar suggested. Never a blue rosette – not ever. I know and value my roots as working class.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
Did Tamerlin ever appear to laud his team? You would think he could stop being distracted for just five minutes?

No chance!

[LDiCesare]

Havak, I can try to force him to sit in front of a computer on next week end when I go to Toulouse (if I can find him between a rugby match and a third half-time).

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
I am happy to give my take on one thing Finbar suggested. Never a blue rosette – not ever. I know and value my roots as working class.

A predilection for Pork Pies does not a Working Class Lad make!

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


No chance!

He drops in to tease us and disappears again! In fact, I know where he's been. That brand new, oversized, Toulouse-bred Airbus had its maiden flight recently. He was sitting up in first class looking down on the rest of us!

[ravagon]

I remember thinking exactly the same thing a few nights ago during the news clip showing the new jet.

I was looking very closely to try and catch Tamerlin waving from one of the windows. Foolish I know, he was undoubtably in the bar/casino.