State of Black America

[Az]

That's precisely the people I had in mind when I spoke about "3,000 years ago". Don't tell me you still believe this crap that was used to to convince the Jews back when they were an illiterate primitive people of herders

primitive - maybe, illiterate - no.

[Az]

That's exactly the definition of racism. Every racist has his "good Negro", "good Jew", "good Arab" or whatever, in order to make a point that he is in reality not a blind hater.

Nope. That doesn't have to be that. Hitler didn't have any "good jews".

He doesn't even have to hate a race to be a racist: just to make a judgement about a person based on his ethnicity: and Farrakhan definetly does that.

[GePap]

Originally posted by rah

We're all Americans. That should be enough. I'm not Italian, German or Irish (even though that is my heritage), I"M AMERICAN. We're all Americans. But it's like being black supercedes being an American. My fear is that if they keep saying they're different, some might stop treating them as Americans and treat them as something different. Granted there is still hatred and misstreatment out there, but the goal should be to be treated the same. There are many of us that do treat them the same, but are constantly being bombarded with the message that they're different.

Except that the fact that blacks are criminalized far mroe than any other group shows this is NOT true. Its nice that in a site that is 98% NOt black people apeaks about how blacks should get over it- nice to say, but its not true that white people actually believe it- if you are a white killer, just blame a black man-everyone will believe you. The fact blakcs have an imprisonment rate 8 TIMES greater than that of whites shows that this "we are all Americans" is not yet TRUE.

So while its wonderful for people to speak about the end of race, the simple statistics show race seems to be a powerful issue still.

I guess it just seeing that while trying to correct historical injustices, they're hampering themselves from the true final goal. No differences.

Some of them do harm themselves by focusing on the past, nto the future. That at the same time should not obscure the truth that the past shapes the present, and the immense wrong done to blacks was never in any way trully dealt with.

Now, I'm sure there are cynics out there will say, that's it's easy to say what I say since I'm white. That's part of the problem.

I am not black either, and the issue remains that immense differences in earning power, in evene the ability to vote due to disemfrichisement laws, mean that race still matters.

I agree that blaming whites for current problems solves nothing, but thinking there are no issues left either except black bitterness is false too, because the fact is the immense disadvantage blacks were given in this country has not been made up.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Azazel
Nope. That doesn't have to be that. Hitler didn't have any "good jews".

Even he did. He explicitely demanded that his mother's deathbed doctor would live.

[Az]

Even he did. He explicitely demanded that his mother's deathbed doctor would live.

Not the same. I don't think that this was part of any ideology of his, rather a deviation from it. In any case, even he probably thought of him as worthy to live despite his jewishness.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Wycoff
It's black Islamic Fascism.

No, because it's not Islam. It's just Black fascism.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by dannubis
yes.

but on the other hand, the fact that 'blacks' were oppressed in the past can not be used as an excuse to explain present failure.

In sports, there's a race know as a relay race. Each person races along, then hands off a baton to another person. Individual effort is important, but those who ran before you are also important.

Now, in the relay race of life in the U.S., the Black team was hobbled (i.e., had their legs bound) for the first three legs of the race. Right now, they ar far behind the white team. Because the runners in the 4th leg are not hobbled, the white team claims that the Black team has no reason to complain, and that they should be able to succeed entirely upon their own merit.

The fact that Black were oppressed for three hundred years (begining with the Slave codes in the late 17th Century), is very much a reason for Black / white disparities. Your statement also ignores the fact that de facto oppression continues to this day, and not just from "ignorant" whites, but from authorities as well. I have seen it with my own eyes.

[rah]

GePap, while you bring up a lot of valid points, none of them have anything to do with what I said. I know there are current inequities, I don't deny it. I'm just saying that by continually making themselves appear to be different by using their skin color as a reason to be different, they may be hurting their cause more than it is helping, if it makes people that are trying to treat them the same, think that maybe they don't want to be.
While there is still much racial hatred, there are many whites that are truely past it. These people should not be ignored or alianated.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by rah
I watched the academy awards. I'm getting tired of the black thing. Not that they are finally getting some of the recognition and rewards that they've been denied in the past (because I think it's about time), but the whole "i am what I am because I'm black". If you use skin color to define who you are and look differently at those with other skin colors, you're proclaiming that you are different.

We're all Americans. That should be enough. I'm not Italian, German or Irish (even though that is my heritage), I"M AMERICAN. We're all Americans. But it's like being black supercedes being an American. My fear is that if they keep saying they're different, some might stop treating them as Americans and treat them as something different. Granted there is still hatred and misstreatment out there, but the goal should be to be treated the same. There are many of us that do treat them the same, but are constantly being bombarded with the message that they're different.

I guess it just seeing that while trying to correct historical injustices, they're hampering themselves from the true final goal. No differences.

Now, I'm sure there are cynics out there will say, that's it's easy to say what I say since I'm white. That's part of the problem.

Hey its cool to be black. In doing so you get to claim underdogg status. Everyone loves an underdog.

Plus you get to do that oohhh soo funny white guy impersonation.

[GePap]

Well, these whites might be "beyond it", but the personal feelings of people, however laudable, can be a problem, since if these people are "beyond it", they failt o see that in fact WE as a soceity is NOt beyond it- it becomes an issue they fail to see, and thus can;t even think that it needs to be solved.

There is a difference between "I am not a racist" and "there is no racism". Its great if everyone were trully #1, but until so, people who know themselves to be be racists do a diservice by thinking that there is no racism left.

Again, we agree that some black leaders are counterproductive by blaming whites as individuals today of oppresion when this is not true-that said, as Che pointed out, blacks remain disadvantaged because the injustices of the past have NOT been made up. So whites who are not racists should not at the same time think they can sit back and think- I am not racist, racism isn;t here.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Hey its cool to be black. In doing so you get to claim underdogg status. Everyone loves an underdog.

Plus you get to do that oohhh soo funny white guy impersonation.

It may be cool when you're middle class and get all the same perks as whites. Otherwise, when you're from a crime-ridden inner city, I'm not sure of the coolness of it all.

[rah]

Society's racism will only be solved one person at a time. I can teach my children (through example like my father did) and combat it as best as I can when I see it. But I was never able to convice my father-in-law no matter how hard I tried. But he's dead now, so it's time to prepare the next generation.

[Az]

Again, we agree that some black leaders are counterproductive by blaming whites as individuals today of oppresion when this is not true-that said, as Che pointed out, blacks remain disadvantaged because the injustices of the past have NOT been made up.

A little bit of observation from the outside: The biggest problem black people are facing isn't racism, or past racism. It's the problems within the community. While it is possible that past racism has caused the "black society" problems in the USA, trying to pull individuals and fix their status is not an effective solution, and the true solution would be to fix the problems the sub-culture has.

The world is full of stories of disadvantaged minorities making it big. 'Asians' in the USA, who despite what many would say, do enjoy the biggest paychecks in the country, jews in europe, and so many many more... They need to change the wrong assumptions in the culture... however Farrakhan is not how you do it.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara No, because it's not Islam. It's just Black fascism.

I should have written that better. The important part was that it was Black Fascism, and it also happens to be Islamic. I'm not equating the NOI to the Taliban.

[chequita guevara]

It happens to have Islam in the name. It's no more Islamic than the National Socialist Workers Party was socialist or workers. Don't be fooled by names. The NOI has some really out there ideas in its religion, including that white people were invented by a big headed scientist named Yakub. It not considered Islam by Islamic clerics.