State of Black America

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Pax

True, Farrakhan has opinions of whites. These opinions are formed through his life experiences that apparently tells him he can't trust jews, whites are liars, and killers and etc. How are his views different from the typical jewish posters views on the palestinians. Check some of there posts. Check the posts of some americans on arabs/muslims. I would not call them racist cocksmokers. I would say that the problem is a failure of both sides to understand eachother.

By your definition no one is racist.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Spiffor
My, what a horrible load of crap. Looks like mystics without a clue.

It's black Islamic Fascism.

[Elok]

"George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and other famous Americans" did useful and constructive things for their country to get buildings named after them. They weren't perfect people but they did something worthwhile with their lives. Farrakhan just whines and acts as a divisive force. Nuts to him.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Wycoff
It's black Islamic Fascism.

It's not only that. It's the sum of plenty of unrelated crap tied together. I mean, what the heck is a "black nation"? There is more ethnical variety among blacks than among all other populations on the planet! This variety was also cultural in pre-colonial Africa.

The fact that they believe they are God's chosen people. I thought nobody had believed that crap for the past 3,000 years. Geez, it looks like a religion written by a 5 year old.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Pax
True, Farrakhan has opinions of whites. These opinions are formed through his life experiences that apparently tells him he can't trust jews, whites are liars, and killers and etc. How are his views different from the typical jewish posters views on the palestinians. Check some of there posts. Check the posts of some americans on arabs/muslims. I would not call them racist cocksmokers. I would say that the problem is a failure of both sides to understand eachother.

I would say these people are discriminators for sure. And when you discriminate on the grounds of race (which is what Farrakhan does when he talks about whites), this is racism by every definition I can think of.

From what Wycoff citen, the NOI by and large is an utterly racist movement, considering that it draws divisive lines based on race. Jefferson might have been a racist, but his contribution to history was not exclusively to draw racial lines, and to feed racial cleavages. That's because his achievements were better than that that he's remembered. Unless Farrakhan does something actually positive, he'll never be remembered.

[Tassadar500]

Originally posted by Spiffor

It's not only that. It's the sum of plenty of unrelated crap tied together. I mean, what the heck is a "black nation"? There is more ethnical variety among blacks than among all other populations on the planet! This variety was also cultural in pre-colonial Africa.

The fact that they believe they are God's chosen people. I thought nobody had believed that crap for the past 3,000 years. Geez, it looks like a religion written by a 5 year old.

The Jews?

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Spiffor
I would say these people are discriminators for sure. And when you discriminate on the grounds of race (which is what Farrakhan does when he talks about whites), this is racism by every definition I can think of.

Good explanation.

the NOI by and large is an utterly racist movement, considering that it draws divisive lines based on race... Unless Farrakhan does something actually positive, he'll never be remembered.

Who knows what would happen if people like Farrakhan and the NOI ever received total power... I suspect that it could resemble Nazism. What's the real difference between people like Farrakhan and Hitler?

[Pax]

Consider this,
#10. The Nation of Islam was formed in a time of segregation. Blacks were subject to all sorts of racist acts. For example, a black man could get lynched for sleeping with a white woman. A the time the NOI first came up with this belief it was a matter of self-preservation that blacks did not mix with whites. Your disgust is misdirected.
#5. Once again, for the times. The idea that blacks should be resurrected from their situation of persecution is about as crazy as the jews believing they are the chosen people and that the Pharaoh should let Mose's people go.
#7 Look at the times. The key thing to understand is that blacks in america have no identity past the slaveship. Every nation on earth recognizes the need for a national identity and history. Knowledge of who you are and where you come from. African-Americans whole heritage and languages was taken. There is no way to repair it or "go back to africa" This whole idea is about establishing pride and dignity into the black race.
#9 Many blacks believe that integration will only cause blacks to lose what little sense of history they have left and eventually the whole african american subculture will disappear. Many blacks also believe that even when society claims to be integrated, racism will still exist just as strong but harder combat. An example of a so-called integrated society would be Brazil or several of countries where the groups closest white are the most priviledged(india)
All this being said CONSIDER THIS
Farrakhan has stated that Blacks need to stop waiting for handouts from the government, get educated, get jobs, stop having premarital sex, raise your children, get married, start businesses, vote, be productive members of society, don't do drugs, pray to god and help others to do the same. These are his main points. Do you disagree with them or do you think that we should ignore everything he says because he is a racist cocksmoker?

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Pax

Farrakhan has stated that Blacks need to stop waiting for handouts from the government, get educated, get jobs, stop having premarital sex, raise your children, get married, start businesses, vote, be productive members of society, don't do drugs, pray to god and help others to do the same. These are his main points. Do you disagree with them or do you think that we should ignore everything he says because he is a racist cocksmoker?

Those are practical, laudable goals, and goals that can be divorced from racism. The thing that I dislike about Farrakhan is his idea (certainly implied, but explicit at times) that its the White Devil that's holding the blacks back and preventing them from doing all of these things. Its a built in excuse for failure. The key to success for blacks is to stop blaming everything on Whitey and take responsibility for themselves. Cosby said this this summer and was immediately chastised by black leadership. Whites need to be vigiliant against our own old predjudices, but IMO, black leadership needs to realize that being militant and blaming the whites for failures is counterproductive; it makes white people more defensive and less sympathetic.

Another thing that I don't understand is why the black establishment doesn't accept the great success of conservative blacks. 60 years ago, who would have believed that we'd have a black Sec. of State succeeded by a black woman Sec. of State? Despite the impressive success of people like Condi Rice and Colin Powell, they are ostracized as house Negros, Uncle Toms, etc. I think that's foolish.

"racist cocksmoker" wasn't my term. I stand by racist, but "cocksmoker" is almost certainly wrong. Farrakhan had 9 children.

[Sava]

he's a scumbag IMO

[Pax]

Wycoff,
Farrakhan stated years prior that Blacks need to stop blaming whites for their problems. Part of the NOI goals are self-determination. Farakhan is also one of the Black leaders that stood up for Cosby when he made those statements.
There are several issues going on simultaneously here. Let's seperate them.
1. Whether or not Farakhan is racist.
2. Responsibility for the situation in Black America.
3. Farakhan's goal for blacks.

Issue one is only important in relation to racist acts you can attribute Farakhan. I do not have knowledge of any crimes or acts of discrimination that Farakhan had been guilty of.

Issue two is simply laying the blame for poverty in black america squarely on the U.S. government shoulders. I don't he how the telling the truth can an excuse for failure.

Issue three is the most important. Farakhan does not give poor blacks a free pass to sit in the projects, get high and make babies while waiting for reparations from the government. He promotes self-determination.

My own POV is that the U.S. is moving in the right direction but without groups like the NOI and Black Panthers the U.S. would not have moved so quickly towards equality. The birth of militant groups willing to go to various levels of civil disobedience forced the government and american society to change.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Dude Farakhan is SUCH a racist. You got his statements on this thread. Don't try to say it is ok because of his ****ed up views.

[Az]

True, Farrakhan has opinions of whites. These opinions are formed through his life experiences that apparently tells him he can't trust jews, whites are liars, and killers and etc. How are his views different from the typical jewish posters views on the palestinians. Check some of there posts. Check the posts of some americans on arabs/muslims. I would not call them racist cocksmokers. I would say that the problem is a failure of both sides to understand eachother.

Neither arab nor muslim ( nor jew) for that matter are races, thus hatred for them isn't racism, but hatred for all individuals of a group of people by means of generalization. Except the nazis' attitude for jews, which specifically targeted genetic heritage: Thus, classical anti-semitism was not racist, while modern anti-semitism is.

The statement that "white people are X" is racist however.
Just like the statement "black people are X".

[Dis]

Is it racist to say black men have large *****?

[Az]

yes.