European Constitution: So it begins

[alva]

(or whatever it’s called in English. In Dutch: versterkte samenwerking)

A frenchy writing dutch?!
I can die happily now, for I have seen all..



I just found we won't get a referendum, according to our Walloon Grand leader, we are too stupid.
He does want a referendum to see if Belgium should split.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by alva
A frenchy writing dutch?!

Err, no, it was Maniac. I forgot the quote tags
If it can relieve you, I know a Frenchman who speaks Dutch, but that's only because he is Flemish

I just found we won't get a referendum, according to our Walloon Grand leader, we are too stupid.

[alva]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Originally posted by alva
A frenchy writing dutch?!

Err, no, it was Maniac. I forgot the quote tags

there are some things we shouldn't fool around with, not sure if the universe could have handled it.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

I'm especially eager to see the second one. Ever since Maastritch, we have been plagued by the unreasonable expectations of consensus. We must "agree" in all circumstances. Any disagreement is bad, bad, bad. That might have worked when we were 6. Now that we are 25, it's completely stupid. Some countries are extremely attached to their sovereignty, like Britain. Some countries have just recently been independent and don't want to transfer their sovereignty to a monster, like Poland. I don't think we should shove political integration down their throats. OTOH, I don't think the Euro-supportive countries should continue to wait for the others, which will probably be forever reluctant. The NO to the constitution will make this debate finally salient, especially if two countries like France and Britain oppose it.

i agree. the EU needs to move towards decentralization and géometrie-variable (multi-variable?) those who want to integrate more, let them.

[Odin]

Why do constitutions have to be so long, nowdays? Keep them simple, outline the structure of goverment and fundimental rights and liberties, you don't need 200 pages to do that.

[Atahualpa]

As I am currently in beautiful España I can tell you, yes people stayed away because nobody really had a plan on what this is about and what they are voting for.
OTOH Zapatero did a good job mobilizing people by simply stating "Vote SÃ and vote for Europe, vote no and you will vote against Europe" and he brought up everything what the EU did good to Spain and such.

I perceive a black future for the EU if it continues like that.. my hope is almost lost.

[Datajack Franit]

One may wonder, if the Euro brought misery all over Europe, what will this Constitution (that AGAIN, citizens are NOT required to vote) bring?

[The Andy-Man]

What troubles me is firstly, that there is almost no opposition to the EU, and the EU passes laws like crazy which the media never tells us about. But Also, non of these referendums is actually binding, so if the spaniards had said no, then the government would have gone ahead anyway.

Even when it is binding, they just keep holding referendums untill they get the required answer

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by The Andy-Man
Even when it is binding, they just keep holding referendums untill they get the required answer

That's why you have to continually vote in them, and mobilize people to vote in them

[The Andy-Man]

Originally posted by Spiffor

That's why you have to continually vote in them, and mobilize people to vote in them

Personaly, i htink that if your going to have a referendum that significantly changes and effects a nations sovereighnty, then it should require 75% of the electorate to agree.

That doesn't mean 75% of thee vote is yes, it means 75% of registered voters.

[Atahualpa]

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
One may wonder, if the Euro brought misery all over Europe, what will this Constitution (that AGAIN, citizens are NOT required to vote) bring?

Actually I like the euro!

[alva]

Originally posted by Atahualpa


Actually I like the euro!

Yeah, it's all right, except that there still isn't any slang around so we all still end saying that stupid word.

You go and try to sound cool placing a bet during a poker game using the word "Euro" and bluffing's even worse. C'mon, who the **** is going to take you serious.

[Spiffor]

And we can't even use slang for the past currency, because it would confuse things

[Lawrence of Arabia]

mille balles

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
mille balles

That 152.40 € and you know it

It just doesn't have the same ring to it, does it?