"Red Ken" ruffles jewish feathers

[Edan]

Despite that the Evening Standard wrote articles supporting facism during the 30's, that doesn't make the Evening Standard of today guilty of the sins of it's fathers.

And even if the Evening Standard or it's owners have been egrigiously disrespectful to Mr Livingstone, that doesn't make it acceptable to start using slurs against a reporter associated with them.

Do you really think a journalist - even a pushy journalist - or a trashy newspaper are comparable to a war criminal or a concentration camp guard?

Do you think Ken Livingstone is comparable to a concentration camp survivor?

The man disrespects the memory of many with his outrageous comparison.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by lord of the mark

If you attack a Jew and he mentions the holocaust, the Jew is at fault. If someone attacking a jew mentions the holocaust, and the jew complains, the jew is at fault. The jew is always at fault, no matter what he does or says.

I'm sorry to inject a little levity here, but this is like a scene in the American version of 'Queer As Folk' where the Jewish lesbian is somewhat inebriated and says: "That's right; blame the Jew," in response to something her gentile partner says.

When in doubt, blame the Jew for their Jewishness- it's a goy thing.



There's no excuse for Livingstone making the comparison to a concentration camp guard once he knew the reporter was Jewish- it's the kind of easy petty offensiveness one expects from NeoNazis and Aryan Brotherhood members not from an elected mayor of London.

All he's done so far by digging his heels in and raking up the past history of the Rothermere Press is show his own stupidity in making the comment in the first place.

It's something the Trotskyite press in the U.K. used to do in the 70s and 80s, with cartoons of Menachem Begin in German uniform, and so on.

One wonders if Mr Livingstone would have used equally offensive language to a reporter of Afro-Caribbean origins, or indeed to a Muslim reporter.

[Zoid]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


And you disproved him how? I was mortified by both you and Kamrat X's comments in this thread.

Well, that´s between you and your PC-ness. I call it as I see it.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Kamrat X
Great, this thread is already going straight to hell...

It started there.

[KrazyHorse]

I'm sure digging through 6 pages of barely-concealed ethnicity bashing and hyper-defensiveness is some people's idea of fun, but for the rest of us is there a summary available?

[Zoid]

Originally posted by molly bloom

There's no excuse for Livingstone making the comparison to a concentration camp guard once he knew the reporter was Jewish- it's the kind of easy petty offensiveness one expects from NeoNazis and Aryan Brotherhood members not from an elected mayor of London.

All he's done so far by digging his heels in and raking up the past history of the Rothermere Press is show his own stupidity in making the comment in the first place.

It's something the Trotskyite press in the U.K. used to do in the 70s and 80s, with cartoons of Menachem Begin in German uniform, and so on.

One wonders if Mr Livingstone would have used equally offensive language to a reporter of Afro-Caribbean origins, or indeed to a Muslim reporter.

The fact that the reporter was jewish has nothing to do with it as I see it. Livingstone was disgusted with the Evening Standard, that´s why he lashed out. It was stupid and tactless for a man in his position, but understandable from a human perspective. The cc guard insult would´ve worked as well against anyone else since noone wants to be compared to a nazi war criminal. The Livingstone affair is not anti-semitism, no matter how loud the pro-Israel groups are screaming.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I'm sure digging through 6 pages of barely-concealed ethnicity bashing and hyper-defensiveness is some people's idea of fun, but for the rest of us is there a summary available?

Ken Livingstone made an offensive remark based upon his perception of a reporter's ethnic/cultural/religious affiliation.

Several people (who should have known better) attempted to defend this by saying the British Press can be terrible. They can, but so what?

Then followed the usual logical 'Poly dish-fest with a bit of light Jew blaming as seasoning.


It's a non-Jewish thing- when in doubt, blame the Jew.

[KrazyHorse]

I know I always do.

[Zoid]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I'm sure digging through 6 pages of barely-concealed ethnicity bashing and hyper-defensiveness is some people's idea of fun, but for the rest of us is there a summary available?

I made a stupid joke and then all hell broke loose. Then more people got involved and it strayed from the original topic to the usual Israel/oppressed jew-debate. PC-ness and hyper-defensiveness reigned supreme. Myself and Agathon tried to defend our position but got whacked on the fingers by Che. The debate continues.

That´s it I suppose...

[Last Conformist]

There was also a borderline interesting discussion of what constitutes anti-semitism/anti-zionism.

[C0ckney]

molly

red ken has always been an absolute disgrace, his track record speaks for itself. i hope the labour party takes some action over this, but maybe he's just echoing what other labour members think

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Agathon

Well, the scary thing is that Livingstone might be right about him being a moderate.

He's the mayor of London. He probably has to deal with a bunch of people he doesn't like - that's politics. Jeez the Queen once entertained Mr and Mrs Ceausescu.

What's awful is that you would be hard pressed to find as fervent an anti-racist as Ken Livingstone.

I presume the queen, when challenged about mr Ceausescu, didnt go on tear blaming Ceausescus critics as racists, which Red Ken did when he was criticized about this particular sheik - he used much the same rhetoric youve been using.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well Blair has called on Livingstone to apologize.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by molly bloom


I'm sorry to inject a little levity here, but this is like a scene in the American version of 'Queer As Folk' where the Jewish lesbian is somewhat inebriated and says: "That's right; blame the Jew," in response to something her gentile partner says.

When in doubt, blame the Jew for their Jewishness- it's a goy thing.

.

Let me take issue with one thing youve said "its a goy thing" there are too many gentiles who DONT do that, and who stand up to it, for me to let that pass. Guev here being a good example - and of course there are millions of others, around the world. In America, and yes, in Europe. and yes, in the muslim world too.

[C0ckney]

as well he might! but it will be interesting to see what happens if red ken refuses to apologise, my guess is not much.

btw did you guys hear about labour's latest poster which had michael howard and oliver letwin's (the tory leader and shadow chancellor, both jewish) faces on the bodies of pigs?