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Rafik al-Hariri - Former Lebanese PM - Assasinated
A simple hit team does not use enough explosives to make a 30 foot crater on the street.
At the same time, how did anyone get that much explosives into an armored limousine?
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
see Daniel Pipes, "Greater Syria, the History of an Ambition".
When I find the time.
In the meantime, would you kindly hint at the thesis?
Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?
It's no good (from an evolutionary point of view) to have the physique of Tarzan if you have the sex drive of a philosopher. -- Michael Ruse
The Nedaverse I can accept, but not the Berzaverse. There can only be so many alternate realities. -- Elok
Originally posted by GePap
A simple hit team does not use enough explosives to make a 30 foot crater on the street.
At the same time, how did anyone get that much explosives into an armored limousine?
Terrorists, Islamic and otherwise, are involved in organised crime as well. What's to say he didn't screw over some A-Q related bigshot who decided to use one of his fools to blow it up? Again, note that this is just idle speculation, all I'm opposing is the notion that it can be dismissed off hand.
BTW, they're reporting now that it's a suicide bombing, which makes a Syrian involvement even less likely.
"On this ship you'll refer to me as idiot, not you captain!"
- Lone Star
Taking advantage of an assassination to start pushing for a Syrian withdrawal isn't sabre rattling? I'd say it fits the category rather comfortably.
What the hell does that mean anyway? What kind of "pushing" are we talking about? The Syrians sure aren't going to give a **** about such vagueness if it doesn't imply a willingness to take punitive action.
LOTM - at this point its up to the UNSC to decide. Sanctions would seem one possibility. I fail to see how calling for withdrawl is saber rattling. Is every country that calls for US withdrawl from Iraq after a bombing there engaged in saber rattling?
In conclusion, even without that kind of speak, the risk of further violence and destabilisation is very high, so it would behoove the US to shut the **** up and not start empty posturing. The US isn't popular around that part of the world, remember?
LOTM - the Syrian presence seems to be the focus of the risk. And its Syria thats particularly unpopular in Lebanon.
BTW, why would it be impossible for criminal groups (with or without political/religious connections) to move explosives in Lebanon?
Mind, I'm not saying it was done by such interests, I'm just wondering where you get such precise knowledge.
Im not sure its IMPOSSIBLE - but I thought Syria maintained pretty tight control over Lebanon.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
I dont agree with all his views, but his history of Syria is considered quite a serious work.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
Terrorists, Islamic and otherwise, are involved in organised crime as well. What's to say he didn't screw over some A-Q related bigshot who decided to use one of his fools to blow it up? Again, note that this is just idle speculation, all I'm opposing is the notion that it can be dismissed off hand.
BTW, they're reporting now that it's a suicide bombing, which makes a Syrian involvement even less likely.
Well, a suicide car coming up against the limousine makes some sense, at least given the scale of the damage.
My point was only that some organized crime family by itself most likely would not have the resources to get their hands on that much explosives- Governments certainly and international terrorist groups possibly.
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
In the meantime, would you kindly hint at the thesis?
Ive only skimmed it, but heres my understanding.
for hundreds of years what is today Syria-lebanon-Israel/palestine-jordan were one cultural, and often political unit. In the politicing that followed the breakup of the Ottoman empire, the notion that this entity, called Greater Syria, should be one state was an important notion in Syrian politics. Different religious and ethnic groups took different views of it - Zionist Jews and Lebanese Maronite Christians opposed it, but Sunni muslims and Greek Orthodox supported it, (I dont remember what the views of Allawite, Shia, and Druze muslims were) This impacted the politics of the arab-israel situation, as well as of Lebanon, and of Syria, in the 1930s and 1940s. Even afterwards it effected the views of non-Maronite groups toward the Lebanese state, and of Syria toward the Lebanese state, and of Syria toward the Israeli and Palestinian issues.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
Terrorists, Islamic and otherwise, are involved in organised crime as well. What's to say he didn't screw over some A-Q related bigshot who decided to use one of his fools to blow it up? Again, note that this is just idle speculation, all I'm opposing is the notion that it can be dismissed off hand.
BTW, they're reporting now that it's a suicide bombing, which makes a Syrian involvement even less likely.
For the same reason nobody whacked Arafat, for all the problems he caused on all sides.
When someone controls that much money in that part of world (heck, in any part of the world), the problems caused by killing him outright make the idea very unpalatable unless you are extraordinarily powerful yourself.
In short, that man probably represented a significant portion of Lebanon's economy all by himself, and everybody benefitting from that are now very angry.
No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.
LOTM - at this point its up to the UNSC to decide. Sanctions would seem one possibility. I fail to see how calling for withdrawl is saber rattling. Is every country that calls for US withdrawl from Iraq after a bombing there engaged in saber rattling?
LOTM - the Syrian presence seems to be the focus of the risk. And its Syria thats particularly unpopular in Lebanon.
Im not sure its IMPOSSIBLE - but I thought Syria maintained pretty tight control over Lebanon.
McClellan's words - "This murder today is a terrible reminder that the Lebanese people must be able to pursue their aspirations and determine their own political future free from violence and intimidation and free from Syrian occupation,".
The bottom line is, the US makes inflammatory remarks about the area at the moment of an extremely destabilising event. They're not stupid, they know what they're doing. It's sabre rattling all right.
As for Syrian unpopularity, exactly. The US comments did nothing but promoted conflict.
Finally, about Syrian control, surely you must know that the Syrian occupation is corrupt to the core. When their military officials can be regularly paid off with a bribe, it's utterly unrealistic to expect some kind of super-competence in preventing bombings. Even Israel can't do it.
"On this ship you'll refer to me as idiot, not you captain!"
- Lone Star
Originally posted by The Mad Monk
Mafia is money oriented. Killing billionaires is very bad for business.
Why does everybody skim over the Al-Qaida connections and religious/political influences on organised crime? They don't have Italian dons in the Middle East.
"On this ship you'll refer to me as idiot, not you captain!"
- Lone Star
McClellan's words - "This murder today is a terrible reminder that the Lebanese people must be able to pursue their aspirations and determine their own political future free from violence and intimidation and free from Syrian occupation,".
Which is true. And far less inflammatory than what Syria regularly says about the situation in Israel, or in Iraq, IIRC.
It does seem, BTW, that Hairiri had criticized Hezbollah, the palestinians, and the muslim brotherhood as well, so the list with motive expands.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
its also is a remineder of that instance when there was a gunfight near some embassies in downtown Damascus, and the Syrians blamed AQ.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
Which is true. And far less inflammatory than what Syria regularly says about the situation in Israel, or in Iraq, IIRC.
So what? If you really think the relative merits of Syrian sabre rattling makes the Bush admin's comments any more reasonable, you're really not in a position to discuss any politics.
The people in Lebanon and Syria are NOT going to think "well, since the Syrian government has said some mean things, I don't think the Americans mean anything bad by that".
"On this ship you'll refer to me as idiot, not you captain!"
- Lone Star
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