It's official: Dear Leader has nukes

[child of Thor]

Originally posted by Agathon

support the arab israeli peace process, and cut off funds to terrorist groups that obstruct it.

The Sharon government would be a good start.

exactly what i'm trying to get at. No one country on this planet today can claim exclusive 'goodness' rites over another country.
Neither the American posters here should really believe their country is all goodness and light(because it isnt), and no British person either imho - we've done all sorts of awfull things in the past(and present).

When any country tries this it leads to war and innocent non combatant people dying.

Now just because you've been brain-washed isnt a valid excuse imho. Look at what happend in WW2 when theoretical rhetoric was used by the governments on both sides of the divide.

We need to be smarter than this. We need to make our hard won democracies actualy count for something.

We need to scrutinize our elected servents much more closely.

We need to make sure that if we really want to change the world for the better - spreading peace and prosperity and democracy, then we need our actions in the world to be positive. Killing people either directly or indirectly isn't positve action.

So lets just all grow up as human beings - put behind us our primitive and bloody past and reach into the future for a positive, respectful, fair world.

I really believe that by using our streangths we can change the world for the better - by shareing our wealth, our freedom(and i dont mean the current Bush's version of it at all) etc we would win everyone around.

In the old days you could simply conquer a people. word didn't travel far or fast, so you could get away with it. We dont live in that world anymore(and havent fora good few hundred years).

But the generous/benevolent leader of a prosperous people would be able to effect the change necesary for us to move forward, it wont be easy and it wont happen over night. It will take alot of effort from us all in our privaliged postions.

Thats my gut feeling on it, and i believe more and more people are coming around to this point of view.

The people of the world are educated, smart, and more informed. We can see the wood for the trees and we will endevour to make the story of humankind a success rather than a dismal failure.

Then true good will have won the day and your childrens children will thank us for the trouble we went to. Its quite simple really.

[DaShi]

I don't think this is about goodness. It's about world security or even regional security, which can affect the world. America may not certainly be the shining example of maintaining, but it is playing a central role in the NK situation.

[child of Thor]

well the 'goodness' word was just to help zone in the 'good against evil' zombies

And yes your completely right.

But whos got the right to decide who can and can not have a means of defence.

Who's been actively funding/supporting the overthrowing of any number of governments for decades? Why have they?

Who's a threat to world security, probably any number of likely candidates?

And out of these who's got WMD and is willing to use them?

Safe world?

Is it that difficult to see that the so called strategic foreign policy the US has been using recently is diametricaly opposed to making a safer world?

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by GePap
Our bribes to them in 1994 do not seem to have pushed anyone towards getting nukes, which remains a singulalrly expensive and diffciult task- only countries that are rich enough or advanced enough even have a chance, and the fact is, once you are in a position to get nukes anyways, by buying or making them locally, you are already more than just some tin pot dictatorship.

I don't understand. Are you claiming that north Korea is Rich? Advanced? more than just a tin pot dictatorship?

It sure looks that way.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by DaShi
"Not just RoK but from South Korea all the way down to probably Australia. All these countries are against Japan remilitarising."

Just as they were against NK having nuclear weapons.

No. DPRK has not invaded their countries and/or tortured and killed lots and lots of their people. Japan is in its own category.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by PLATO
Japan has a non-agression Constitution...

Which they have been circumventing.

Originally posted by PLATO
The US is on record stating no desire to attack or invade...

What are all these talks about "DPRK is an outpost of tyranny" and "overthrowing all tyrannies" again?

[floppy_lobster]

Stop rationalizing the actions of insane meglomaniac's with minor points closes.Mentally you are just holding back whats on your mind. Just come out and say you love Kim and want to move to N. Korea. And you support this butcher of millions who forces his people to eat grass while he sleeps with a different 13 year old each night?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by child of Thor So lets just all grow up as human beings - put behind us our primitive and bloody past and reach into the future for a positive, respectful, fair world.

Led by a purple dinosaur.

I love you, you love me...

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


No. DPRK has not invaded their countries and/or tortured and killed lots and lots of their people. Japan is in its own category.

But which is truly a threat today? NK which has threatened other nations and has violated non-proliferation agreements to develop nuclear arms, or Japan, which has a non-agression clause in its constitution and has not threatened any other nation since its defeat in WWII? Should China still be considered a terrible and violent country for the Cultural Revolultion or the Tiannanmen Square massacre?

[notyoueither]

Yes?

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Which they have been circumventing.

But not to the level that you would like people to believe. You keep saying this and hoping that people will draw the inaccurate conclusion that you want from it. Regardless, since WWII, Japan has become one of the most pacifistic countries in world and has sought out methods to contribute to the world in a peaceful and benevolent (and sometime strange) way. Even the minor infraction to their constitution, which is debatable in itself, was met with great controversy and resistance among the Japanese people and government. I'm sorry to say that Japanese that so want to believe still exist to justify your hatred of them are long gone. In fact, the more I see in China, the more I believe that the Chinese don't like the Japanese because they believe the Japanese make them look bad in comparison, which is foolish in itself.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Sikander


That should read Clinton, who as his presidency was winding down was desperate to have a chance to lick the Dear Leader's ass in a visit to Pyongyang to celebrate the free nuclear power plants and oil we (the allies) gave them while they continued to build their warheads. The administration (and the previous one) was dead wrong about Iraq having WMD, but Cheney's been right all along about North Korea.

The very LAST person I am going to look to for advice or leadership is Cheney, of all people.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Oerdin


No, I don't think so. They periodically do this because they want to throw temper-tantrums to get more aid. The problem is we give aid then they reneg on agreements. The logical solution is to stop playing ball with them and give them nothing. We get nothing for our aid anyway and the balance of forces insures they won't launch a war and will instead just keep ranting and raving.

O-man, I think something is much different this time. Just a feeling.

This reminds me of the time Bush called out Iraq about a year before we invaded. He would routinely bad mouth them, pressuring them about weapons, but there was one particular speech that stood out from the rest of them, and at that point I knew it was a matter of time before good soldiers such as yourself would be on the ground there.

Except this time Korea is the one doing the calling out. I really think they mean business this time.

[Alexander's Horse]

My sources tell me one of the North Korean nukes has "DIE TED Striker" chalked on the side of it.

[Ted Striker]