French workers fight for the right to be lazy

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
the UMP (the party of Nicolas Sarkozy, a bit of a maverick, he was the minister of edcuation, i think now hes foreign minister??) voted for the increase in maximum working hours, as did the UDF.

The UMP is Chirac's party, but the President never leads his party himself over here. Sarkozy is an ambitious shark, poised to replace Chirac. Recently he was a wildly popular police minister, and an accepted finance minister (3rd most prominent function in France). He has given up his ministries to become the leader of the UMP, in order to turn this Chirac machine into a Sarkozy machine.

Both the UMP and the UDF are right wing parties, the UDF being less so. Both seem convinced that the statements of the very active employer-syndicate are economic truth, and they do everything they can to please the syndicate.

the PS and the PCF voted against.

No surprise here. The PS introduced the 35 hours workweek, and the PCF's only critics to the 35 hours workweek is that it was bundled with flexibility measures (see one of my posts above).

Frankly, I dont think unemployment goes very far from 10%. i think France needs to suspend, decrease, or change the amount of money they give to unemployed people.

This is not the problem. There hasn't been any serious study linking our unemployment rate to welfare. Some people abuse welfare, of course, but it is not known how many there are. In all cases, the mantra of all French right-wingers (that the unamployed are lazy bums who feed off welfare) has never been proven. It may reduce unemployment to force people to take any job (that's what the Germans are trying, forcing people to become prostitutes), but it may not as well: as the pressure rises on currently employed people, because of unemployment scare, and if the employer is free to have them work 15% extra time (up to 220 overtime hours a year are allowed now), it's absolutely not sure that there will be room for the now-motivated unemployed on the job market.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by notyoueither
As for where things might be going, I would bet a **** load that nobody has ever had it as good as the average French or American worker. And they got it that good under capitalism. So consider well what you wish for.

More accurately, the reson why the French worker (or any European worker) has it so good is because of social democracy. Unfettered capitalism doesn't do good. And when one's economic policies are only oriented toward satisfying the employers (such as current policies in France) you go in the direction of unfettered capitalism. France and most other modern societies have still a long way to go to be unfetterly capitalist, but the direction is a dire one. Already, people who "had it good" in the past have seen their quality of life steadily decrease in the past years.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Cue French general strike.

If only *sigh*

We didn't have a decent strike in 10 years. And save for the railroad guys (who are protected by a rock-solid status and have active unions), everyone is too scared to make a real strike. It is more and more commonplace here to register who's taken part in strikes, to ostracize who sympathizes with unions and so on. Although those who want to undergo all the hassle can be well protected (we do ahve working-relations courts that are quite suspicious of the employer), many simply consider they have too little to gain to bother, and too much to lose. Intimidation works very well.

Sadly, it's not the monopoly of EuroDisneyland and McDonald's anymore. French capitalists have caught up with American capitalists to scare their workers into submission, and the government agrees with it in the name of competitivity (save for the occasional propaganda outbust against some visible "rogue employer")

[Provost Harrison]

Welcome to present day Europe, every bit as corporate and greedy as it's US counterpart. It's a shame that the working class across Europe is so demoralised at this moment in time and without teeth. I see it in France now, and it's visible in the UK and in Germany. Now is a good time for the capitalist class to roll back welfare at an unprecedented rate. Alas with the present nature of society, the unnecessary worry that goes with it people are too distracted from the bigger picture.

Power is needed once more...

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Kidicious
And I'm under the impression that not all African nations have so much corruption. How about Mozambique and Uganda? They aren't exactly developing like China, and they don't have very corrupt govts, do they?

If you knew anything about Mozambique then you'd know about the 35 year civil war which destroyed most of the country and has left it with the largest land mine problem on Earth. I'm not sure how corrupt the government is but I imagine it is as corrupt as the next in Africa.

Uganda, up until the 1950's, was known as the Hong Kong of Africa for its tremendous economic success and racial diversity. Then the place was taken over by a nationalist, xenophobic, power mad cannibal (yes, he routinely ate his political enemies) Adi Amin. The Chinese and Indian entrepreneurs who were the life blood of the economy were forced out of the country even tough they were citizen and their property stolen. Amin went on a blood crazed orgy of death and destruction rarely equaled even in the history of African Dictatorships. The national economy was destroyed, the nation crashed into civil war, and every educated person fled the country never to return.

Not that the post Amin governments have been much better since they've got Uganda into not less then four wars in 30 years. Are Mozambique and Uganda really the best two examples you could come up with?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Ramo
[q]
Algeria stable? Are you insane?

Compared to most of Africa? It's a god damn model of stability. Compared to the first world Algeria is a borderline basket case.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Not that the post Amin governments have been much better since they've got Uganda into not less then four wars in 30 years. Are Mozambique and Uganda really the best two examples you could come up with?

Well, there are very few success-stories in Africa, and the success-stories tend to be short lived anyway. Ivory Coast was the success-stroy of subsaharian Africa (and the reason wasn't only the French patronage), but power struggles have completely strangled it now. Botswana appears to be a riot, because they have nationalized diamond mines. I truly hope they won't suffer the main fate as the people from eastern Congo, whose mineral wealth is the reason of their troubles.

Surprisingly ( ), among the most peaceful countries of Africa, you find te Mali and Burkina Faso, which are abysmally low on natural resources. And thus they tend not to suffer too much from war.

[Dinner]

PH: With countries like Germany back in recession yet again it seems like market liberalisations haven't gone nearly enough. The needed reforms have been listed in numerous threads so I won't retype them here but so far there has only been tinkering at the edges and not the fundimental reform which should have occured ten years ago in Germany.

[DanS]

I note that the vast majority of the drop in working hours in the US took place under more-or-less unfettered capitalism. The number of hours worked in the US hasn't decreased in decades under our current more-or-less socialist system.

[Dinner]

DanS: But you are forgetting about the unions that made the drop to the 40 hour week possible. Those unions don't really exist any more since they are only a tiny shadow of their former selves.

[Spiffor]

Err, your system has grown more and more unfettered since the Reagan years, after the shock therapy of the Chicago boys. Clinton changed little...

Are most of the dramatic drop in working hours from the pre-New-Deal America?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Well, there are very few success-stories in Africa, and the success-stories tend to be short lived anyway. .

Agreed but I would have pointed towards Ghana as a success story if I was in Kid's place. Of course that would have reinforced what his opponents have been saying in this thread.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Are most of the dramatic drop in working hours from the pre-New-Deal America?

Yes.

[Ned]

Since I have no good will for France, I can only urge endless strikes and a reduction of the work week to 1 day or less. Let the French economy tank. Wealth is not important to the French socialist. Wine, adultery and vacations are.

Eat, drink and be merry, Frenchmen!

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
africa is poor first and foremost because of corruption, and civil wars.

Africa is poor, first and foremost, because they have been (and still are being) robbed, beaten, and raped by the West for five hundred years. Fifty years of political freedom isn't going to overcome that.