64 Senators Support Torture

[Jaakko]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
According to Gonzales, the following picture is NOT torture. Yay for Torture Lite!

One thing about that picture is that everyone can try that particular stress position at home. Assume the position, then try spending, say, 30 minutes that way. Then consider that you're not standing on rickety boxes, nor are you hooded, nor chained to the wall.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Jaakko


One thing about that picture is that everyone can try that particular stress position at home. Assume the position, then try spending, say, 30 minutes that way. Then consider that you're not standing on rickety boxes, nor are you hooded, nor chained to the wall.

Jaako, assume the position at home? I thought that the picture illustrated torture? If ordinary people can assume the position without pain, then I assume the Iraqi in the picture can as well.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ned


Actually, that is what the memo said as well. I just read it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...mo20020801.pdf

The problem is that they only call damage to organs extreme pain.

[Kidlicious]

Ned,

What the hell is wrong with you? Of course assuming that position at home for a long time will be painfull. That's the point.

[Pekka]

stress positions are considered a torture. It's not 'putting on a pressure to suspect'. It's torture. Gives you nice static pain. Fools can underestimate it though, but the only pain they ever got was getting it in the nuts by the second grader in elementary school.

Not ALL things are necessarily torture though..

But stress positions are LEGIT torture. By legit I mean that it is recognized as torture. This is basic knowledge. Just like if you are put into hot sand, it is torture. It's not 'putting on some heat'. Or doing the drowning thing. It's not 'psychological pressure'. I mean it is, but it is also torture.

[Ned]

Kid, who said anything about "a long time?"

[Agathon]

Ned, if you're saying that what that picture depicts is not torture, would you please cut down your LSD consumption.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Pekka
stress positions are considered a torture. It's not 'putting on a pressure to suspect'. It's torture. Gives you nice static pain. Fools can underestimate it though, but the only pain they ever got was getting it in the nuts by the second grader in elementary school.

Not ALL things are necessarily torture though..

But stress positions are LEGIT torture. By legit I mean that it is recognized as torture. This is basic knowledge. Just like if you are put into hot sand, it is torture. It's not 'putting on some heat'. Or doing the drowning thing. It's not 'psychological pressure'. I mean it is, but it is also torture.

What about doing pushups or running until "it burns?"

[Ned]

Originally posted by Agathon
Ned, if you're saying that what that picture depicts is not torture, would you please cut down your LSD consumption.

Agathon, we are told by the multitude here that one must assume that position for a "long time" before there is excruciating pain. Others have said that the picture demonstrates, per se, torture. Now, I look at this from the point of view of a juror who has to convict someone beyond a reasonable doubt of torture:

The picture, by itself, only suggests the possibility of torture. We need more information before we can convict. For example: how long does it take before one begins to suffer "extreme pain?" Second, how long was this individual made to stand in that position?

[Pekka]

Ned, I suggest you go learn about torture. If you are seriously challenging what I just described as torture, you know I could just come up with similar counter claims as 'well do you think apple is food?'. It is too trivial.

Push ups are not torture. Running is not torture. UNLESS the subject has some medical conditions making it painful. But at face value they are not torture.

Do you seriously not know what is torture or are you trying to blur the torture line to meet the requirements of making this easy news? Stress positions are KNOWN torture. Joking about is stupid, if you don't know what it is, go on and chain your hands ot a wall and hang 6 hours. Try how it feels.

Besides, funny you should mention to push up. It has been also used as a torture method but with added features.

The point is, you seem to be blurring the line of 'that doesn't hurt'. Stress positions HURT. If you don't believe it, then don't.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ned
Kid, who said anything about "a long time?"

You're topping yourself Ned. Why the hell do you think they put them in that position if it doesn't hurt?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ned


Agathon, we are told by the multitude here that one must assume that position for a "long time" before there is excruciating pain. Others have said that the picture demonstrates, per se, torture. Now, I look at this from the point of view of a juror who has to convict someone beyond a reasonable doubt of torture:

The picture, by itself, only suggests the possibility of torture. We need more information before we can convict. For example: how long does it take before one begins to suffer "extreme pain?" Second, how long was this individual made to stand in that position?

You're the reason we need to get rid of the jury system.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Kidicious


You're the reason we need to get rid of the jury system.

Nah. We need juries composed only of lawyers.

[Ned]

BTW, wasn't that photo among the Abu Gharaib photos? If so, I believe this photo has nothing to do with anything approved by the White House and the people responsible are being prosecuted for violation of criminal law. Still, if I were a juror on that panel, I would want more proof than just the photo.

[Pekka]

Well, I myself was talking purely about stress positions as method of torture, not that picture. Except that the position in that pic is stress position. Of course it takes some time to make it painful. But you admit stress positions as legit form of torture? If so, then I had no other claims.