64 Senators Support Torture

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by el freako
As the US invasion of Iraq has been deemed 'illegal' in some quarters then surely it follows that US soldiers there could be regarded by the insurgents as 'illegal combatants' and therefore any torture inflicted on them by said insurgents would be considered legal.

The US invasion isn't illegal, the US was in a binding agreement to enter Iraq because Iraq violated resolution after resolution. I believe those who committed torture onto detainees have been prosecuted and others are being investigated. Unlike other countries, the US actually investigates these allegations. Your reasoning is disgusting. You should kick yourself in the head for it.

molly, again I want to see evidence for accusations. Gonzalez has repeatably said he is against outright torture.

[Whoha]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
People who play word games just to dance around Morality should be thrown from helicopters...

people who want to throw people out of helicopters should be thrown... out... of... helicopters......

[Dinner]

Nobody from my state voted for that fat ****er.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Nobody from my state voted for that fat ****er.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Nobody from my state voted for that fat ****er.

Mine either. Well actually I live in the same state.

[Thucydides]

Originally posted by Giancarlo


The US invasion isn't illegal, the US was in a binding agreement to enter Iraq because Iraq violated resolution after resolution. I believe those who committed torture onto detainees have been prosecuted and others are being investigated. Unlike other countries, the US actually investigates these allegations. Your reasoning is disgusting. You should kick yourself in the head for it.

molly, again I want to see evidence for accusations. Gonzalez has repeatably said he is against outright torture.

You mean the US was in binding agreement to enter Iraq because they broke UN resolutions. Yet somehow, it's the UN Secretary General that has called the US invasion of Iraq illegal. You can counter by saying the UN is a useless organization or such, but then you lose the ability to define illegal combatants or terrorists for that matter. In such a way all prisoners of War should therefore be under Geneva Conventions. Yet Gonzalzes has defended the position in some 2002 memos that prisoners in Gutamano Bay and those captured in Afghanistan and Iraq don't have the protection of Geneva Convention because of their status as illegal combatants, which includes protection against being tortured.

So while he did stand up in front of Congress and denied that he condoned torture, he did make certainly make it easier for a whole new class of prisoners to be tortured. Thus while he may not have been directly responsible for incidents of torture occuring, he certainly has his part to play by getting rid of safeguards in our system designed to prevent incidents like Abu Grab and Gutanamo Bay from occuring.

Ted Striker already provided the Memo, here's a link for the UN declaring the invasion of Iraq illegal-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3661134.stm

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Nobody from my state voted for that fat ****er.

On a related note, I like how Barbara Boxer put the smackdown on Rice during her confirmation hearings.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Thucydides



So while he did stand up in front of Congress and denied that he condoned torture, he did make certainly make it easier for a whole new class of prisoners to be tortured. Thus while he may not have been directly responsible for incidents of torture occuring, he certainly has his part to play by getting rid of safeguards in our system designed to prevent incidents like Abu Grab and Gutanamo Bay from occuring.

[Pekka]

republicans a damn HUGE THat's something a fundie radical muslim party does, so quite in fact, not in a good bunch anymore. not democracy.

[Ted Striker]

SuperCitizen can you save us?

[Pekka]

Sorry no. When I posted the above message, I meant it but it's only one thing, a drop in the sea. It is VERY unfortunate, and unfortuantely it will endanger US lives everywhere in the world and I guess they are now open to torture as well. It's not bickering, it's a fact. I can't believe this was so popular vote. Besides, I HATE party politics. No matter who does it. SO once again a party shows strength by being disciplined with one big vote, and all those ****ers who were kind of 'well I might say no I'm not sure if this is such a great idea, plus I'm christian' you know, all those ****ers voted yes, who could have gone both ways, because they were loyal to their party in a matter such as this. This is not rep. phenomenon, this is everywhere so I'm nto saying you bad you good.. I just hate this kind of politics in IMPORTANT matters.

You must save yourselves. You're still in a good place, but these people who come up with these, not a party but these who plan these.. must be carefully watched, a person who actually coems with a 'let's OK torture' you know is ****ed up in the head, seriously.

And spare the 'one torture could save the world' crap. Besides I know torturing happens, it must sometimes. The difference is, we don't have a ****ing rule saying here it's totally cool.

[mindseye]

Originally posted by DinoDoc

Where is this spine you speak of the Dems possesing? I see Rice and Gonzales confirmed in short order with no fillibuster threats. So please enlighten me on where it is?

Well, at least Senator Barbara Boxer showed that there is a one Dem senator alive with (figurative) cajones.

I was so proud of her! I voted for her every opportunity I had when I lived in San Francisco.

Go Babs! The "Boxer Rebellion"!

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Giancarlo

molly, again I want to see evidence for accusations. Gonzalez has repeatably said he is against outright torture.

" WASHINGTON (AP) - Attorney General nominee Alberto Gonzales' confirmation hearing this week may become more contentious because the White House has refused to provide copies of his memos on the questioning of terror suspects ."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0%2C1282%2C-4710274%2C00.html

As Dinah Washington sang, 'What a difference a day makes'........

"He had argued in his memo that the war on terrorism ``renders obsolete Geneva's strict limitations on questioning of enemy prisoners and renders quaint some of its provisions.''

Gonzales, as President Bush's White House counsel, was at the center of decisions about ``the legality of detention and interrogation methods that have been seen as tantamount to torture,'' said Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt.

Added Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass.: The ``legal positions that you have supported have been used by the administration, the military and the CIA to justify torture and Geneva Convention violations by military and civilian personnel.''

Gonzales, wearing an American flag pin in his lapel, sat alone at the witness table, family members seated behind him in the crowded hearing room. Senators addressed him respectfully as ``Judge'' - Gonzales is a former Texas Supreme Court justice - but pressed him repeatedly on administration policies.

He refused to back away from his legal opinion to Bush that terrorists don't deserve Geneva Convention treatment if captured by Americans overseas.

`"My judgment was ... that it would not apply to al-Qaida - they weren't a signatory to the convention,'' he said.

He denied that any of the memos he wrote or reviewed in the White House had anything to do with the overseas abuses.

`"Would you not concede that your decision and the decision of the president to call into question the definition of torture, the need to comply with the Geneva Convention at least opened up a permissive environment of conduct?'' asked Richard Durbin of Illinois, the Senate's no. 2 Democrat.

Saying he was sickened and outraged by photos of Abu Ghraib abuses, Gonzales described the U.S. troops in them as `"..people who were morally bankrupt having fun.'' Other abuses of foreign detainees probably were caused because `"there wasn't adequate training, there wasn't adequate supervision.''

`"I respectfully disagree that there was some kind of permissive environment,'' he said.

Gonzales' response to some questions Thursday seemed to contradict his description of the Geneva Convention in his January 2002 memo.

`"I consider the Geneva Convention neither obsolete or quaint,'' he said at the hearing, promising to ensure U.S. compliance ``with all of its legal obligations in fighting the war on terror.''

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0%2C1282%2C-4716261%2C00.html

'Outright' torture?

So what is that, Torture Lite, available at participating military bases and branches of Wal-Mart?

With sleep deprivation, physical abuse and sexual humiliation you get 300 reward points and a trip to Disneyworld thrown in?


Don't make excuses for reptile Republicans just because they're Republicans. His thinking is odious- officers of the court aren't meant to connive at the torture of suspects and the abrogation of people's human rights- even south of the Mason-Dixon Line.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by mindseye

Well, at least Senator Barbara Boxer showed that there is a one Dem senator alive with (figurative) cajones.

I was so proud of her! I voted for her every opportunity I had when I lived in San Francisco.

Go Babs! The "Boxer Rebellion"!

mindseye

Boxer

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Ramo

I see no evidence of spine in them either. Unless of course we count the impotent (and amusing) rage found over at the Democratic Underground forums.

Dean being almost unanimously supported for DNC chair (Dean already has 48% of the vote, needs only 2% more to win, and 47% is uncommitted thus far), despite opposition from the establishment, for instance.

Yes. 2004 was an awesome display of Deaniac power. Good show to all of them.