UPN cancels Star Trek: Enterprise

[Q Classic]

Of course if it is on a website one can't say anything....

PWN3D!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111111111

I don't really understand the love for DS9. Those space battles were a travesty.

How 'bout we explain it this way:
It's not so much love for DS9 as in, "Wow, that was, like, not as ****ty as Voyager or Enterprise... I mean, I thought DS9 was bad, but... just... wow..."

Though, personally, I kinda liked DS9. It was leagues better than the shclock that came after it, you know, the sloppy fourths and fifths...

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Q Cubed

Of course if it is on a website one can't say anything....

PWN3D!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111111111

....except perhaps that it is a silly idea to think some people would start to dislike something they actually like because some website does not like it.....

[Q Classic]

....except perhaps that it is a silly idea to think some people would start to dislike something they actually like because some website does not like it....

Oh, I'm not out to convince you. The fact that you happily swallowed the ookie cookie that was Enterprise suggests to me that at least in that area, you were beyond conversion.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Q Cubed

....except perhaps that it is a silly idea to think some people would start to dislike something they actually like because some website does not like it....

Oh, I'm not out to convince you. The fact that you happily swallowed the ookie cookie that was Enterprise suggests to me that at least in that area, you were beyond conversion.

Of course, because you provide NO evidence! You provide NOTHING!

[Dis]

Originally posted by Sandman
I don't really understand the love for DS9. Those space battles were a travesty.

I really haven't watched that many episodes, but I did watch those space battles in the dominion wars. I thought those were pretty cool.

I just never got into the characters as much as TOS or TNG. Characters are what make a show (along with decent writing).

[Sandman]

I really haven't watched that many episodes, but I did watch those space battles in the dominion wars. I thought those were pretty cool.

"Issues" I have with the DS9 battles:

1. Only the Defiant seemed to have shields. All the other Federation ships (presumably crewed by tens of thousands of Ensign Expendables) blew up like fireworks.

2. The fighting was at pointblank range, with ships ducking and weaving like fighter planes. Hell, they even had fighter-class ships. Call me staid, but I liked the slow-paced naval-style combat from older Star Treks better.

3. Every single Federation ship was unique; you would have thought that they could get a decent design and stick with it. Like the Defiant.

4. The Federation used brutal attrition tactics. Not like them at all.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Sandman
I don't really understand the love for DS9. Those space battles were a travesty.

Have you ever seen a realistic portrayal of a space battle? My guess is that they would be fought at distances of huindreds to thousand of miles distance if the types of super high energy beam weapons and trans-liight speed missles that Sci-Fi writers boast about are available. Surely people capable of travelling between stars would have computer guidance systems in their weapons several orders of magnitude better than anything available today, so misses would be rare. I imagine that when ships are sliced apart there probably would not be big colorful fiery explosions, just big hunks of metal seperating via explosive decompression. You'll never see realistic space battles on TV or in the movies because they would be too boring.

[GePap]

B5 space battles were much better than Star Trek battles, thought the smaller budget made them smaller.

The battle in which the Shadows destroy the Narn attack fleet is very short, but I think very good- ships just don;t blow up, and most of the kills happens from a fair distance (possibly dozens of kilometers away) with beam weapons.

The battle where Eath forces come to take the station is also very good.

Space battles could onyl really happen I think at distances of light-seconds- that is still a huge space, but how could you really even track the target well at distances greater? Of course, battles near planets have to happen at much shorter ranges.

[Dr Strangelove]

The problem with the battles in DS9 that Sandman was referring to is that it was the first time that that Star Trek attempted to portray gigantic fleet engagements. In order to dramatically depict the fleets, supposedly composed of thousands of ships, they chose to place the vessels in tight packs in which the ships seem to be spaced only about a hundred yards or so apart.

[GePap]

Star Trek ship combat from TNG on was always close range, with ships moving very quickly , manuevering like fighters. The big battles of the Dominion War was the firt time the had many ships, but the whole close range thing was not.

Heck, ship to ship combat in Star Trek was also very close.

[Pax]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


Have you ever seen a realistic portrayal of a space battle? My guess is that they would be fought at distances of huindreds to thousand of miles distance if the types of super high energy beam weapons and trans-liight speed missles that Sci-Fi writers boast about are available. Surely people capable of travelling between stars would have computer guidance systems in their weapons several orders of magnitude better than anything available today, so misses would be rare. I imagine that when ships are sliced apart there probably would not be big colorful fiery explosions, just big hunks of metal seperating via explosive decompression. You'll never see realistic space battles on TV or in the movies because they would be too boring.

The idea that is utilized in BG is that space is quiet but you can hear and see the effects on the inside of the vessels.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Pax
The idea that is utilized in BG is that space is quiet but you can hear and see the effects on the inside of the vessels.

True, but the idea of a ship, even one as big as the Galactica, brushing off a direct hit from a nuke is pretty ludicrous.

What I'm saying is that it is routine to depict space battles in a particular way that the public enjoys. I mean big fiery explosions, impressively tight formations of combatants, close order dogfights, and tracers being sprayed all around. Every producer follows the conventions to one extent or the other. In reality it would probably be much different.

[Sandman]

The battle in ROTJ has (capital) ships that are more than a ship's width apart.

Most of the battles in the original series and the TNG, as well as in the first six movies, whilst still taking place at a close range, don't place the ships nose to nose.

[Dis]

the problem is if you want to have more than 1 ship in a camera shot, they are going to have to be close . TV screens are only so big.

as we were discussing earlier, realistic combat would have them firing weapons from thousands or millions of kilometers away, or maybe even light years away.

I never considered the battles in TNG to be "fighter like" I felt they captured the essence of a slow maneuvering space vessel appropiately.

As for DS9, yeah those scenes look a bit too chaotic. It would never happen that way. But I admit it looked cool. . It would be more appropiate to approach in formation and engage from longer distances.

[Sandman]

Just take a far off view, like the view from the Emperor's throne room in ROTJ. No sound, just flashes.