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9/11 victims deserved their fate

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  • It's not as interesting as all that.

    He spoke at my university, DePaul University, circa '93 - '94. He was supposedly speaking about multi-culturalism, but it was basically an all out attack on all things European decended (which, as I looked at him, I thought included him also--especially since most Indians these days are mixed). He was talking about how "advanced" Indian societies were Aztec surgery and all that, and basically saying how there was nothing of value in European culture. Rather than a multi-centric view of history, the only centers of value were the non-European ones.

    So I said, what about the fact that despite the dominent theme in European history, there has always been resistence to that theme within European culture itself. I wasn't merely refering to Marxism, but the whole culture of resistence, from Diggers to Anabaptists, from Sparticus to Bartolomeo de las Casas, on down. After all, it's not like like were "Europeans" marched in lock step throughout history. I also mentioned the fact that many of the victims of Europe were other Europeans.

    He just got red in the face and laid into me verbally, basially calling me (in a very round about way) scum and an enemy of the people. I was like, "what the f*ck," but I decided not to say anything about the fact that he was wearing obviously very expensive glasses (a product of that worthless European technology), making a living off of a European institution (the university), etc.

    After that, I sorta wrote him off, except for his very fine research on government repression in the U.S.
    Last edited by chequita guevara; February 4, 2005, 19:10.
    Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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    • Originally posted by chegitz guevara


      You did?
      Yep

      It would seem that others have something to say about his legitamacy as a member of the American Indian culture.



      American Indian Movement

      The American Indian Movement Grand Governing Council representing the National and International leadership of the American Indian Movement once again is vehemently and emphatically repudiating and condemning the outrageous statements made by academic literary and Indian fraud, Ward Churchill in relationship to the 9-11 tragedy in New York City that claimed thousands of innocent people’s lives.

      Churchill’s statement that these people deserved what happened to them, and calling them little Eichmanns, comparing them to Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann, who implemented Adolf Hitler’s plan to exterminate European Jews and others, should be condemned by all.

      The sorry part of this is Ward Churchill has fraudulently represented himself as an Indian, and a member of the American Indian Movement, a situation that has lifted him into the position of a lecturer on Indian activism. He has used the American Indian Movement’s chapter in Denver to attack the leadership of the official American Indian Movement with his misinformation and propaganda campaigns.

      Ward Churchill has been masquerading as an Indian for years behind his dark glasses and beaded headband. He waves around an honorary membership card that at one time was issued to anyone by the Keetoowah Tribe of Oklahoma. Former President Bill Clinton and many others received these cards, but these cards do not qualify the holder a member of any tribe. He has deceitfully and treacherously fooled innocent and naïve Indian community members in Denver, Colorado, as well as many other people worldwide. Churchill does not represent, nor does he speak on behalf of the American Indian Movement.

      New York’s Hamilton College Kirklands Project should be aware that in their search for truth and justice, the idea that they have hired a fraud to speak on Indian activism is in itself a betrayal of their goals.
      Che, your penchant for being taken in by hucksters like Churchill and Marx is amusing.
      "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

      “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

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      • Yeah, I went back and found it already, hence my next post.
        Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

        Comment


        • Originally posted by chegitz guevara
          It's not as interesting as all that.
          Yes it is.
          I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
          - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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          • Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
            There is a difference between speaking on behalf of some group vs. speaking as a member of the group.

            Churchill has consistently passed himself off as a member of the group to legitamize his positions and to give empathy and credence to the various injuries he 'personally' felt enacted on his tribe.
            Ah well, I don't think it's really a big deal. I knew a guy once who claimed to be a Native American. Even his mom told him that he wasn't. He was a little bit of a nut. Maybe this guy really thinks he is Native American.
            I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
            - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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            • While IMO the irresponsibility of Americans at the voting booth has bordered on criminal, it was certainly not worthy of death.
              Official Homepage of the HiRes Graphics Patch for Civ2

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              • Not all Americans are 'guilty' because they are Americans- some, for instance, opposed American governmental interference in Nicaragua and El Salvador, exposed the lies behind America's foreign policy, and some gave their lives helping the citizens of those countries.
                Would (or are) these opponents of that policy be guilty if the Sandinistas et al started slaughtering non-combatants as I believe they did with some indian tribe?
                If Contra supporters share responsibility for their crimes, and they do, then do Contra opponents share responsibility for Sandinista crimes? How does one avoid this? Not take sides? That ain't good enough for Churchill...

                Knowledge, associated as it is with power, demands action. To Posess knowledge and ignore its demands is to nullify claims of innocence. Ignorance, in effect, equates to complicity, a variety of guilt
                He's got us all covered with that definition of guilt, even himself because he's paid by the state. So some tribe offs another tribe in SE Asia and I don't know about it so I'm complicit? I'm sure this guy knows of many atrocities being committed so why isn't he off fighting the good fight instead of condemning the country in which he is free to speak out. I mean, there's irony in that fact.

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                • Even if one thought that destroying the system could only make matters worse? There's quite a few things that I think are wrong with the good ol' Capitalist World Order, but I'm not seeing any reason to believe that destroying it would allow something better to take its place.
                  For me it really comes down to what base values a system is built on. I don't believe our current culture or anything resembling it as far as lifestyle and technology can exist without the exploitation and destruction of the natural world, including many humans. I don't believe there is an egalitarian, sustainable form of modern civilization. I would be happy to be proven wrong, but nothing in my own observations or a study of a couple million years of human history and evolution have given me cause to doubt that belief yet.


                  He's got us all covered with that definition of guilt, even himself because he's paid by the state. So some tribe offs another tribe in SE Asia and I don't know about it so I'm complicit? I'm sure this guy knows of many atrocities being committed so why isn't he off fighting the good fight instead of condemning the country in which he is free to speak out.

                  The quote is about willfully ignoring the evil being done. If someone truly is unaware of the destruction their lifestyle brings, they can be informed. If you are aware and just decide the suffering or destruction or whatever other consequences it may bring to the rest of the world are worth it for you to have the commodities and lifestyle you currently enjoy, then I think it is fair to say you have lost the ability to claim innocence because 'you just didnt know'

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                  • The quote is about willfully ignoring the evil being done.
                    He said ignorance = complicity. Willfully ignoring an atrocity assumes you knew the atrocity was occuring and you decided to ignore it.

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                    • He said ignorance = complicity. Willfully ignoring an atrocity assumes you knew the atrocity was occuring and you decided to ignore it.
                      While really not wanting to get bogged down in a large discussion of definitions, based on the overall context of the original quote, he is using a more 'theological' definition of ignorance, one of not following a duty. Or more literally 'ignore-ance'

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                      • Here's a picture of the guy.
                        Attached Files
                        I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                        - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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                        • He actually looks pretty Native American in this one.
                          Attached Files
                          I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                          - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                          Comment


                          • All he needs now is a feather in his cap.

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                            • Churchill is now coming under some additional scrutany for some other comments he made.

                              Top state and University of Colorado officials say more radical comments by professor Ward Churchill calling for the United States to be put "out of existence" and saying that more "9/11's are necessary" should be included in a review of whether to fire the controversial professor.

                              Churchill, who is under fire for comparing World Trade Center victims to a top Nazi, made the comments in April in Satya magazine, a Brooklyn-based monthly publication that promotes animal rights and social justice...

                              In the question-and-answer interview, Churchill is asked what should happen to America. "I want the state gone: Transform the situation to U.S. out of North America. U.S. off the planet. Out of existence altogether."

                              Another question: What are the solutions to U.S. misdeeds? Churchill answers in the interview: "One of the things I've suggested is that it may be that more 9/11's are necessary."

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                              • Funny in an absurd way that he compared others to the nazis then (or at least to Eichmann). How do such dumbasses make it to professorship anyway? I bet most of the posters here would do better if we teach them the specifics.....
                                Blah

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