Cities in Iberia, 500 BC

[Prometeus]

These are geographical locations of Spain's main archaeological sites, 2000 BC-500 BC.

[Harlan]

Prometheus,
I just tried downloading your attachment. But rather than getting a file called Spain2.zip, I got one called Attachment.php. I have no idea what a php file is - when I tried opening it up, it crashed my computer .

If you could send the zip to me at harlant@earthlink.net, I'd much appreciate it.

[Waku]

Originally posted by Harlan
Regarding Phoenican spelling, they had a nasty habit of not having vowels in their language. Cadiz, for instance, was spelled Gdr, which isn't too bad, but Leptis Magna in Africa was Lpqy!

That's correct, muslims still omit the vowels today and we don't translate arab names this way: ysr rft, mhmd, or bn ldn.
IMHO the correct phoenician form should be: Gadir
FYG its meaning is: Fortresses (in plural)

[Fiera]

Originally posted by Harlan
By the way, what do you think the cause of abandonment was? Tartessian aggression and/or political confusion back in Phoenicia or Carthage seem most likely as my guesses. What do the experts say?

Tyre was under siege by the Babylonians from 586 BC on. That was enough to leave her distant Iberian colonies incommunicated. Isolation meant decadency for most of these, and even permanent abandonment, in some cases.

This was also the beginning of the period in which Carthage gradually substituted Tyre as a commercial power. So the Carthaginians resettled the old Phoenician factories, sometimes in new, nearby locations. Toscanos seems to be an exception, as was Trayamar (not listed by Jay Bee).

[Jay Bee]

I do not consider myself an expert, but I agree with Fiera. The fall of Tyre definitely. This is also what the scholars suggest that brought the end of Tartessos (the culture I mean ).

[Harlan]

The curious thing from my Phoenician book though is that only the colonies on the southern coast of Spain are mentioned as being abandoned. The other ones don't have an abandonment period, AFAIK.

Waku,
Do you know the correct names for some of the other Phoenician colonies, such as Leptis Magna (Lpqy)? That would be great.

[Waku]

Originally posted by Harlan
Do you know the correct names for some of the other Phoenician colonies, such as Leptis Magna (Lpqy)? That would be great.

Not really but I'll have a look

[Waku]

Again, not as good as I would like but here's some info:

http://www.phoenicia.org/geog.html

PS: I bet you already knew this site

[Fiera]

Originally posted by Waku

PS: I bet you already knew this site

I for one did. It's a quite good and informative site, we (Chris and I) were using it as a source for our Tartessos scn...

[kIndal]

I sent Harlan this list of Iberian cities in South East some days ago:

*Mastienos tribe.
-Masti, capital of Mastienos, his location is unkown,it was named by Periplo Avieno, COULD be a celtic village.
-Molybdana, named by Hecateo, near of Cartaghe.
*Phoenician cities:
-Malaca (Malaga) IMP IMP
-Sexi(Almuñecar) IMP IMP
-Abdera (Adra) I believe you know them. IMP IMP
-Baria(Villaricos) IMP
-Salambina(Salobreña)
*Greeks
-Ulisea, somewhere in Alpujarras
*Bastetanos tribe.
-Basti (Baza), their capital. IMP IMP
-Tutugi (Galera)
-Ilorci (Lorca) IMP
-Tagili (Tijola)
-Alba (Abla)
-Urci (Pechina-Almeria) IMP IMP
-Murgi (El Ejido)

The most important ones are with IMP IMP if somebody has anyone more of this region...

[kIndal]

I have found some other cities of this age, correct them if are wrong or if they have been named you know that I don´t kknow al lot about this age...

*Edetanos tribe
-Saitabi (Xativa)
-Ilici (Elche)
-Lucentum (La Albufereta)
-Dianium (Denia)
*Oretanos tribe
-Castulo(near Linares)
-Oria or Orissia (probably Granatula)

I will look for more ones

[Harlan]

Jesus,
Do you have a secret double identity or something? What's your source for these? And/or, can you explain in a sentence for each why they deserve to be a "city" in 500 BC? Otherwise I'm afraid I'll end up with too many.

[Jay Bee]

Originally posted by Harlan
Jesus,
Do you have a secret double identity or something?

That Jesus is not me, if you were referring to that. If not,

[kIndal]

Ehhhh!!!! There are two Jesúses
Jesús Balsinde(Jay Bee) and Jesús Muñoz (me)
The first cities´ fonts are a book about the history of my region, AlmerÃa. and second ones is from a book about pre roman history.
Well, all of these aren´t properly cities, just can be named as
"cities" some ones, but I have added the names of some villages.

[Jay Bee]

Since you said you've already many cities, I will add just a few from the center of the peninsula (Celtic tribes):

Toletum (Toledo)
Helmantike (Salamanca)
Pallantia (Palencia)
Arbocala (Toro)
Salduba (Zaragoza)
Nertobriga (Calatorao, near Zaragoza)


PS. I found the ancient name of Niebla: Ilipla. I guess you do not need more Tartessian cities, right? I found a pretty extensive list.

PPS. An important Carthagininan city I missed in my previous posting is Ebusus (Ibiza)